Hey guys,
Microsoft's licensing terms are not at all easy to understand. Given that cPanel users are part of Active Directory, does that mean that user/subscriber/client licenses are needed for each user on top of the normal per-CPU licenses?
Put another way, let's say we have 1000 cPanel user accounts in a 5-machine cluster (1 CPU socket per box). Will we need to license anything from Microsoft on top of the 5 single-processor Windows Server licenses?
Thanks!
Last edited by plimail; 04-09-2009 at 12:42 AM. Reason: clarify details
This was one of our reasons for using 2008 over 2003 server. In 2008 if you get a server on per cpu licensing you don't need client access licenses aka CALS. So you can get a windows license for standard for fifty bucks and a web edition server for just ten bucks a month.Originally Posted by plimail
So given your example say you have a domain of 5 windows 2008 servers and you're set and happy running our cPanel offering for windows. This is a break down of how you might be paying Microsoft (or via your reseller to Microsoft).
AD Server/DNS/Shared Disc - $50 - Windows 2008 Standard
MySQL Server - free - Linux (pick a distro that can run MySQL quick)
Mail Server (Pop/Imap) - $50 - Windows 2008 Standard
MSSQL Server - $10 Windows 2008 Web + $10 SQL Server 2008 Web
IIS7 Server - $10 Windows 2008 Web
Add it up to $130 bucks.
Now there are all sorts of ways to skimp on this too. Say you don't want to offer IMAP with mail you could drop that license down to a web edition server.
Most of the time your host provider is going to get their windows license via the SPLA method, it's much more affordable and it's a pay as you go system. Also you're not really locked into a version you just restore to the newer one and you're good.
The SPLA is based on a document called the SPUR which is about thirty pages long. You can find it here: http://www.microsoft.com/serviceprov...g/default.mspx on the Microsoft webpage. I recommend everyone try and read it once
Thanks for the helpful, detailed explanation!I am still confused on two points, though.
I just looked at a reseller SPLA price list, and the Web edition is indeed attractive at just over $10 per month, per machine. But, unless I am missing something, the Standard edition is a LOT more than $50 per month. It looks like it is actually over $150 per month, per machine. If I'm reading this correctly, this could be very costly... especially if a company is starting out with just a small number of Windows customers!
According to what I've read, Web edition cannot join the Active Directory. So how does this work to share cPanel users, settings, etc. Also, how do users for IIS/FTP count into the scheme of things?
Thanks for all the help. Excited to learn more about this product!
Ok I was confusing it with the DataCenter Edition (which is neat too but not for what we want) here. So I've formulated below.
Also if you didn't want to serve imap you could shave 135 off the price.
Which isn't all that nice now. This isn't how I'd recommend you start off as a newcomer to the windows market. Now this is a way but you start off with a lot of overhead in servers and money that you're going to have to make up in the profit side of things. I plan on giving a talk about this at our upcoming seminar.
Yeah, I that's what I feared, but thanks for checking. You didn't say about Windows Web Server in a domain environment, but assuming the worst, and all servers would need to run the Standard edition, that would be $145 x 5, or a whopping $725 per month just to license Windows! That's not including whatever cPanel's fees will be per user!
After reading the SPUR some more, I'm interested in the per-user Subscriber Access License (SAL) model as a more cost effective option for getting started. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but it looks like you can run Windows Server Standard on as many computers as you want without any extra fees as long as you pay about $3.50 per domain user.
This brings up a technical question about how cPanel Server Suite adds "FTP Users" and "Password Protected Directories" in IIS. Do either or both of these options work by adding additional domain users (and thus would have to be reported in the SPLA reports)?
Thanks!
We made the FTP and Password protected users "iis users" not windows accounts. Email accounts are users on the email server type you select so they too don't come into play. The only user that should be counted is the Web Site Owner.Yeah, I that's what I feared, but thanks for checking. You didn't say about Windows Web Server in a domain environment, but assuming the worst, and all servers would need to run the Standard edition, that would be $145 x 5, or a whopping $725 per month just to license Windows! That's not including whatever cPanel's fees will be per user!
After reading the SPUR some more, I'm interested in the per-user Subscriber Access License (SAL) model as a more cost effective option for getting started. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but it looks like you can run Windows Server Standard on as many computers as you want without any extra fees as long as you pay about $3.50 per domain user.
This brings up a technical question about how cPanel Server Suite adds "FTP Users" and "Password Protected Directories" in IIS. Do either or both of these options work by adding additional domain users (and thus would have to be reported in the SPLA reports)?
Thanks!
Well, in the course of investigating Microsoft SPLA licensing further, I was also informed that if a server is licensed using the SAL model, it cannot also be used for anonymous connections (for example, a domain controller for cPanel using SALs cannot also serve up public DNS records).Can anyone confirm if this really is correct information?
cPanel Server Suite looks very promising, but I'm afraid that cPanel's decision to use Active Directory might be a deal breaker for some who can't make a decent profit after dishing out all of Microsoft's licensing fees. I understand the efficiency in using AD, but at what cost? Regardless of whether SAL or per processor is used, the requirement to (legally) run Active Directory raises Windows licensing prices almost exponentially since it involves so-called "authenticated" users. It seems that if cPanel were to use its own database to manage users, we could use the Anonymous edition of Windows which is a much more affordable $18 per month, per server.
I saw in one of your presentations a point to the effect of "Active Directory - it's there, so why not use it." I have an answer for why you should not: it costs an arm and a leg!
Yes, I dont understand why they dont store the data in MySQL or MSSQL express database and scrap active directory.
Thanks,
Dave
The main and best reason is shared IIS configuration across webservers. This will let you add IP's and webservers to your domain as you need them. The sites can be multicasted on all of these servers or on one at a time.
Active directory comes into play when you want to use application pools on other computers and keep permissions straight. Being in a domain means you can have a SANS or a NAS file server and keep it backed up and secured and possibly redundant while then throw up IIS servers on cheap machines in an almost disposable fashion. Tweak them to server pages quickly and stripe the hard drives to reboot quickly.
It gets really need with the new ARR technology with Microsoft. You can use one machine as a gateway to your other severs in the background.
This system isn't meant to be a single server solution. It can be but it's best as it grows out to being a several machine domain.
Dns
What dns option do you have in mind for Enkompass? We would be interested in using Simple DNS Plus cause is has some features that we would like to have.
Do you plan to have an edit DNS option for the users (API/control panel)?
It would be very useful if cPanel for Windows allows to manage websites on both IIS7 and Apache.
This feature exist in Plesk 9
I prefer apache for installing Joomla and other php based applications.
For example, Joomla might work fine on IIS7, but there are some SEO components that require mod_rewrite.
For ASP.NET we can choose IIS7.
We're using MSDNS that's built into windows. It seemed like a good place to start. Since with AD your DNS zones are automatically synchronized across all DNS servers within a given domain.
So if you need another DNS server, install the DNS roll and you're ready to go.
We allow resellers (and admins) to change DNS via our WHM interface, but individual users can only change aspects of their DNS such as MX entries.
Ahh.. I have missed so much lately, I did subscribe to the beta in late 2007 but I never got any emails from cPanel.. Anyways I am glad that cPanel Windows version beta is out and some of you are already using it. I have sent a request for my copy lets see how does it go.
I just wanted to know will we be able to integrate MS Exchange in to this multi server environment and if yes, will it have extra cost..? would it be per user license as well..? And will we be able to manage our Exchange through Enkompass
Looking forward to get my hands over the beta..
We had a lot of folks on the beta list from 2007 and it was so much we had to cut back quite a deal. We're on the heels of launching our beta2 release so I'd give it a few days and contact our sales team to get in on beta2 if you'd like to see it beforehand.Ahh.. I have missed so much lately, I did subscribe to the beta in late 2007 but I never got any emails from cPanel.. Anyways I am glad that cPanel Windows version beta is out and some of you are already using it. I have sent a request for my copy lets see how does it go.
I just wanted to know will we be able to integrate MS Exchange in to this multi server environment and if yes, will it have extra cost..? would it be per user license as well..? And will we be able to manage our Exchange through Enkompass
Looking forward to get my hands over the beta..
I have no updates on cost right now. We will be using a per user model.
Right now we support SmarterMail and MailEnable for MTA agents. SmarterMail can do most of the things Exchange can do really well so I'd recommend giving it a look.
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