Versioninfo changed?

[Ivan A]

Speaking from a personal view point, no I don't find the tier useful. What I find useful is the version number as it tells me about the product currently installed on the server.

Kenneth, Please add in Tweak Settings option to display "STABLE, CURRENT, RELEASE or EDGE" in WHM or not, this will solve this situation for all, just who is really convenient to have this information to be displayed ..

[Kent Brockman]

Speaking from a personal view point, no I don't find the tier useful. What I find useful is the version number as it tells me about the product currently installed on the server.

Hi there Kenneth. I can understand the new numbering system since it's more intuitive and simpler that complex build numbers. Ok till now.

But, you say that "the version number tells you about the product currently installed on the server", but I must refer to the changelog: if today you are using 11.27.3 you surely must be using the EDGE tier, but if you are on 11.26.8, you may be using any of the 4 tiers! So please explain me/us at this point WHY don't you find the tier info useful? I think the tier data may bring some instant clues when troubleshooting a given problem... or are we wrong? Please clarify.

BTW, the changelog versioning must be updated soon from now on, deleting the build numbers, since that info is useless and confuse users.

Thank you

[SageBrian]

Removing the tier makes no sense.
Maybe the developers working with the code know 11.26.9 is whatever it is. But as a server admin, we want to see at a glance what tier we are on.

Personally, I also do not understand the 'need' to remove the info. It cannot be for space or removal of clutter.

quick: WHM 11.27.3 = what tier am I on?
If tier is not important to know, then why have different tiers?

Also, the new numbering system. Are you not being bold thinking you will have no more than 9 versions before going stable? Or will you go to .11?

If for some reason you do not want to show E/C/R/S, then what if you factored it into the numbers.

11.27.(01-49) Edge
11.27.(50-99) Current
11.28.(01-49) Release
11.28.(50-99) Stable

That way, we could truly know what tier is in use. Though, letters/words are so much easier.

Perhaps you assume that server admins just 'know' their servers? Or if we help someone else, we will have no problem taking the extra step to look for the tier?

very odd decision

[Ivan A]

Removing the tier makes no sense.
Maybe the developers working with the code know 11.26.9 is whatever it is. But as a server admin, we want to see at a glance what tier we are on.

Personally, I also do not understand the 'need' to remove the info. It cannot be for space or removal of clutter.

quick: WHM 11.27.3 = what tier am I on?
If tier is not important to know, then why have different tiers?

Also, the new numbering system. Are you not being bold thinking you will have no more than 9 versions before going stable? Or will you go to .11?

If for some reason you do not want to show E/C/R/S, then what if you factored it into the numbers.

11.27.(01-49) Edge
11.27.(50-99) Current
11.28.(01-49) Release
11.28.(50-99) Stable

That way, we could truly know what tier is in use. Though, letters/words are so much easier.

Perhaps you assume that server admins just 'know' their servers? Or if we help someone else, we will have no problem taking the extra step to look for the tier?

very odd decision

+1...

Kenneth, please resolve the situation on this issue for the next update, though not very convenient ...

Thanks you..

[cpanelkenneth]

OK, everyone, there are many of you and only one of me

I'm working on responses to the various points raised herein, but it will take me some time as forum monitoring and posting is only a tiny part of what I do at cPanel. I hope to have this response online today (Sept 13, 2010) or tomorrow (Sept 14, 2010).

Your patience is appreciated, as well as your feedback.

Yes, I primarily posted this so you know I'm still listening

[cpanelkenneth]

To ensure we have an accurate understanding of the matter I'm going to focus solely on WHM. The information applies in a similar way to the cPanel interface.

Version Information Displayed
It is my understanding the matter under discussion is the display of the version information as presented in the upper right corner of WHM. For years this display contained information like:

cPanel 11.25.0-S46156 - WHM 11.25.0 - X 3.9

As of the release of cPanel 11.26 this display changed to something like:

WHM 11.26.0

The information displayed is obtained from the product currently installed on the server. As such it may not be a reflection of your chosen upgrade tier. The following is an example of this, using the older style version display.

1. User configures server to use the RELEASE tier
2. User initiates a cPanel Update
3. After update, User refreshes his WHM display
4. WHM displays the version as 11.25.0-R46156, where R represents the RELEASE tier
5. User configures server to use the EDGE tier
6. User refreshes his WHM display
7. WHM displays the version as 11.25.0-R46156

At this point it is important to note the following:

• The version information is not affected by the tier selection until after the cPanel Update
• The version information is not a reliable gauge of the tier configured in Update Preferences
• The version information is not a reliable gauge of whether the product will update to a development or production tier
• The version information is determined solely from the installed product, not what it might be
• The version information suffices to serve, at a glance, information about the installed product, nothing more

For reliable information about the configured tier for a particular server, consult one of the following:

• The Update Preferences interface in WHM; or
• The Upgrade to Latest Version interface in WHM; or
• The /etc/cpupdate.conf file

Now let's focus on the changes introduced in cPanel 11.26 and later. Earlier in the thread we linked to the cPanel/WHM Versions and Release Process that explained our new version numbering. As part of this we also simplified the version numbering. Rather than having multiple version numbers, we have one that describes the product as a whole.

For example, the last release of cPanel 11.24 showed the following in WHM:

cPanel 11.24.5-S38506 - WHM 11.24.4 - X 3.9

Having multiple numbers made things confusing.

What about removal of the tier?

The tier instructs the update system where to look on the update mirror for things to download. Right now we have separate repositories for each tier, on each mirror. Also the tier name is embedded in the product within the repository. This all changes with cPanel 11.30. At that point we will introduce an overhaul to the update repositories. This overhaul will bring much needed flexibility and features that will benefit everyone in the long run. I apologize for speaking in such glowing, but vague terms, but some of the details are still being decided.

However, you will be able to learn about some of these changes at this year's cPanel conference, in various presentations. One I recommend is cPanel RPM.

Beginning with cPanel 11.30 the tier will no longer be embedded in the product installation, as it is now. We decided to remove the tier information from the version display at the same time that we switched over to the new version numbering scheme in anticipation of the change.


Now on to other points and questions raised in this thread.

1. The Change log.
   
   Yes, the current change log system does not handle the new versioning system well. We are in the process of replacing the current change log system with another. Once that process is complete the current awkwardness with the change log and the version numbers will not exist.
   
2. Segmenting tiers by build IDs.
   
   Attempting to segment the tiers according to the build numbers introduces unnecessary awkwardness and overhead.
   
3. Are you not being bold thinking you will have no more than 9 versions before going stable?
   
   I'm not certain where this perception comes from. If I have misread something related to this, please feel free to bring it to my attention. There are no limits to the build ID, which is the third segment of the version number. This number can increment to infinity if we so desire. The only segment we place a limit on is the second segment, which has a limit of 99.
   
   For example, at time of writing you'll notice that one of our test releases is 11.27.72
   
4. If the tier is not important to know, then why have different tiers?
   
   This is explained in the cPanel/WHM Versions and Release Process I linked to earlier.
   
5. What about those funny 5 digit numbers that are still listed on httpupdate.cpanel.net?
   
   OK, so I made up this one Those numbers will disappear completely from the product soon, giving us a "clean" version number.
   

[sneader]

All good info, thanks for sharing!

I still would like to see a reference to the currently installed tier, in the top-right corner of WHM, like we have had for the last zillion years, unless you can provide a reason for it not to be there.

- Scott

[Ivan A]

All good info, thanks for sharing!

I still would like to see a reference to the currently installed tier, in the top-right corner of WHM, like we have had for the last zillion years, unless you can provide a reason for it not to be there.

- Scott

+1

P.S.
Kenneth, thanks you.

[Kent Brockman]

[*] If the tier is not important to know, then why have different tiers?
This is explained in the cPanel/WHM Versions and Release Process I linked to earlier.

I see, interesting concept, but a quick read bypassed that info

Odd major values: Development releases
Even major values: Production releases

So i.e., 11.26.x is STABLE/RELEASE, and 11.27 is CURRENT/EDGE

Now, having readed this and seeing that STABLE and RELEASE will become one, and the CURRENT and EDGE tiers will also be unified, I just wonder if there will be enough user testing to deliver Stable versions as there appears to be less steps to define a version as "Stable". I assume you will improve the testing process. But I'm afraid that may appear some glitches in the "Stable versions" or will they be delivered as less frequently as they are in the STABLE version because the versions with Odd major values will be as much thoroughly tested as the actual Current tier?

Thank you

[cpanelkenneth]

I see, interesting concept, but a quick read bypassed that info

Odd major values: Development releases
Even major values: Production releases

So i.e., 11.26.x is STABLE/RELEASE, and 11.27 is CURRENT/EDGE

Now, having readed this and seeing that STABLE and RELEASE will become one, and the CURRENT and EDGE tiers will also be unified, I just wonder if there will be enough user testing to deliver Stable versions as there appears to be less steps to define a version as "Stable". I assume you will improve the testing process. But I'm afraid that may appear some glitches in the "Stable versions" or will they be delivered as less frequently as they are in the STABLE version because the versions with Odd major values will be as much thoroughly tested as the actual Current tier?

Thank you

We aren't unifying the tiers. There are still 4 tiers, and we will keep those tiers. What we did was document their meaning. The meaning has long been implied; now the meaning is official

As for improving the testing process, that is a constant

[Kent Brockman]

We aren't unifying the tiers. There are still 4 tiers, and we will keep those tiers. What we did was document their meaning. The meaning has long been implied; now the meaning is official

ok, I think I finally will understand all this once the changelog format have been upgraded. In the meanwhile, it's still vague (at less to me ).