Probably, but remember VAT are not something cPanel earns on, but rather the EU, and it's European law that states VAT should be added to consumers. So unless you're exempt from VAT, that's not really something cPanel can be blamed for.. for simply following EU law.
- Status
@LucasRolff
I think the issue Chris picked with you is that you seem to be in like the 1% of people who claim to not be negatively affected by this change. Pretty much everyone else is losing money or like me will be forced to shut down, You seem to be one of the few who isn't so congrats to you blah blah. Although I'd double check your numbers because maybe you made a mistake?
In terms of a 'small guy' like me, its killed any hope of me growing my business. Instead of trying to pay for some advertising etc to gain new clients. I would need to pay cPanel that money and end up with no new clients and still have to shut down due to lack of revenue. There is no alternative without doubling my current outgoings at least for a couple months which I can't do.
Seems to me most people are wanting the attention brought to those of us who CANNOT justify this increase. its us who are being - Removed - over bad. Now lets be real, if you had the choice between this new method or sticking to the previous you'd go for previous its more money to us the cpanel licensees no matter how you look at it. The fact you wont suffer is of no consequence as majority of us are going to suffer thats what needs to be looked at and reassessed by cpanel / oakley (I name both because no one outside these companies really knows who is calling the shots). They need to look at the damage they are causing to a large amount of their users. ESPECIALLY the smaller companies. The big boys will have plenty of options, the smaller companies are in trouble. Its hard enough trying to compete with the likes of 1and1, godaddy, {insert other big name shared host here} without having to factor in a stupid increase from cpanel into your overall pricing. Looking at it now compared to the popular hosts out there I would need to LOSE money to become competitive price wise. So whats the point? Why should I be forced to shut down the business I am trying to start because some rich people wanna get richer? That's just BS.
I reckon in their "research" into this change and their supposed case studies. I bet it only took into account some of their biggest clients (those who have enough money and revenue to handle this type of change) The rest of us they didn't bother to give a second thought about.
The bit that bothers me the most is that it has been made PERFECTLY CLEAR to cpanel that huge amount of their customers will be in big trouble with this price hike and they haven't done a thing about it. NOTHING. So either the public facing staff sympathise and cannot tell / show it OR they couldn't give a crap. Either way is a very sad state of affairs if thats how a company treats it clients.
A responsible company would look at lowering prices to accommodate smaller companies that are going to be put out of business. They havent bothered.
I wouldn't be surprised if the next blog / announcement email was just simply "Dear customer, Piss off. Regards cPanel & Oakley" because this extreme lack of support and communication doesn't say anything to the contrary.
I've also been keeping an eye on cPanel license resellers in the hopes of maybe getting good deal via currency exchange or something but nope. I'm still lookin at double the fee which again makes cpanel almost as expensive as my dedicated server. And before I get the sarky "switch to a VPS" comment. No. Why should I? why am I even charged more. does it cost cPanel more to have their software run on a dedicated machine? Nope. So why does a dedi need to pay extra for the license?
Its all very amature hour and clearly set out to make them their quick return before the the toilet flushes.
I think the issue Chris picked with you is that you seem to be in like the 1% of people who claim to not be negatively affected by this change. Pretty much everyone else is losing money or like me will be forced to shut down, You seem to be one of the few who isn't so congrats to you blah blah. Although I'd double check your numbers because maybe you made a mistake?
In terms of a 'small guy' like me, its killed any hope of me growing my business. Instead of trying to pay for some advertising etc to gain new clients. I would need to pay cPanel that money and end up with no new clients and still have to shut down due to lack of revenue. There is no alternative without doubling my current outgoings at least for a couple months which I can't do.
Seems to me most people are wanting the attention brought to those of us who CANNOT justify this increase. its us who are being - Removed - over bad. Now lets be real, if you had the choice between this new method or sticking to the previous you'd go for previous its more money to us the cpanel licensees no matter how you look at it. The fact you wont suffer is of no consequence as majority of us are going to suffer thats what needs to be looked at and reassessed by cpanel / oakley (I name both because no one outside these companies really knows who is calling the shots). They need to look at the damage they are causing to a large amount of their users. ESPECIALLY the smaller companies. The big boys will have plenty of options, the smaller companies are in trouble. Its hard enough trying to compete with the likes of 1and1, godaddy, {insert other big name shared host here} without having to factor in a stupid increase from cpanel into your overall pricing. Looking at it now compared to the popular hosts out there I would need to LOSE money to become competitive price wise. So whats the point? Why should I be forced to shut down the business I am trying to start because some rich people wanna get richer? That's just BS.
I reckon in their "research" into this change and their supposed case studies. I bet it only took into account some of their biggest clients (those who have enough money and revenue to handle this type of change) The rest of us they didn't bother to give a second thought about.
The bit that bothers me the most is that it has been made PERFECTLY CLEAR to cpanel that huge amount of their customers will be in big trouble with this price hike and they haven't done a thing about it. NOTHING. So either the public facing staff sympathise and cannot tell / show it OR they couldn't give a crap. Either way is a very sad state of affairs if thats how a company treats it clients.
A responsible company would look at lowering prices to accommodate smaller companies that are going to be put out of business. They havent bothered.
I wouldn't be surprised if the next blog / announcement email was just simply "Dear customer, Piss off. Regards cPanel & Oakley" because this extreme lack of support and communication doesn't say anything to the contrary.
I've also been keeping an eye on cPanel license resellers in the hopes of maybe getting good deal via currency exchange or something but nope. I'm still lookin at double the fee which again makes cpanel almost as expensive as my dedicated server. And before I get the sarky "switch to a VPS" comment. No. Why should I? why am I even charged more. does it cost cPanel more to have their software run on a dedicated machine? Nope. So why does a dedi need to pay extra for the license?
Its all very amature hour and clearly set out to make them their quick return before the the toilet flushes.
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My average accounts per server happen to be just about 100 accounts, all servers are dedicated servers, and have the normal "bare metal" licenses.
I have one machine that will get a small increase of about $10 (per month), something that is rather easy for me to justify.
So no, my calculations are not incorrect - I just happen to "fit" into the licenses that are in place.
Additionally, for me $0.2 per account is perfectly fine, it's something I can justify, so even when going above 100 accounts per server on average, I'll happily pay the additional money.
There's a bunch of us that are small guys - for me, I "only" have 523 active hosting accounts (at this very moment), and honestly, I've never done any advertisement.
Depending on how your business is structured and what your pricing is, sure the increase can have a significant cost, without adding much or any value what so ever, people doing reseller plans are hurt by the change (And I believe I've stated that before as well), but continue to provide an awesome service to your customers, be active on social media and help people out - you'll be surprised how much helping people with random things can actually make you gain quite some customers, and get your name/company known without having to pay a penny (except time).
The more you get known in a given group on FB for example, the more people will start to keep an eye on you, and eventually, you'll be getting customers simply by worth of mouth.
As your revenue then starts to grow, you can then invest in your advertisement (if you decide to do so). If you want to continue to do what you (hopefully) love, then you shouldn't give up, even in cases like this, you have to adapt (I know it's easier said than done) - but if you burn for what you do, continue and don't let someone stop you.
The great thing about people who loves what they do, is that they'll go far, and they'll end up providing a super awesome product, that actually allows them to compete a lot, even without having to dump prices.
So, honestly, don't see "small guy" as a bad thing, rather use it against the bigger ones. And remember, it's always easier to decrease a price over time than it is to increase them. Better set your price a bit higher now until things start to become more cost-effective, or to the point where adding another server and migrate customers to some new panel if you wish to do that isn't such a big deal anymore.
I think you're right - people want to get the attention because they're affected by the change, but if people want to get attention, I think they have to calm down a bit, and stop throwing with mud.
It's way easier to talk to people and companies if both stay professional, and don't throw dirt at each other - which sadly is the case here.
You seem like a decent guy and one that stays calm, even when you want to be angry, so I'm sure you'll find a solution as well.
Sure, I like cheap stuff, but I also like stuff that works - and with stuff these days being usage-based billing, I see the point in cPanel switching to it as well.
Let's say cPanel started out with usage-based billing 20 years ago (That would probably have been weird, but you know), I think people would still very much buy their software, as long as the quality of the overall experience makes up for the fact you're being billed for your usage.
But sure, fixed-fee pricing isn't bad, but I also don't see fixed-fee being something that will continue to be the case forever, so eventually at some point, someone would have to be hurt.
Alternatively, cPanel could keep the fixed-fee licenses, and continue to increase the pricing every year, and you'd still hurt the small guys, because then suddenly the entry point of a license would be $100 per month.
Some people suffer, some people do not - I'm sure that cPanel and Oakley have sat down, looked at their numbers, looked at the number of accounts per server, and figured out pricing that might be "fair" (Not saying no increase, but a fair increase) to a majority of customers, and especially also going one level deeper, to check what percentage of servers are from what companies, and then deciding what price to set.
Yes, there's customers where it will have a massive impact, either because of having a high utilization of accounts, or because of the configuration they run with (such as solo license on bare metal gets a 300% increase). Additionally, there's a factor that cPanel can't take into account, and that's what all those accounts are used for, and more over, whether each account is being billed or not (either due to reseller with unlimited accounts, or cases such as non-profit).
But I'm pretty sure cPanel and Oakley actually went over the numbers multiple times.
Only cPanel has statistics about how large an amount of users will actually be affected, but based on the numbers from last years conference, those where it causes massive damage are not in the majority of customers - it will cause changes to a majority of customers, that's correct, but the amount of changes depends a lot.
You also have bigger companies that will be hit hard by the change if we're looking percentage-wise on the pricing, and you might say they're hurt "less" than the smaller ones, but for them migrating 2000 accounts, sure it might be easier, but it's still a task that has to be done.
As one of the "small guys" as you mentioned earlier, please do yourself the favor of not competing with companies such as 1and1, GoDaddy and other big names - compete with other businesses that are largely same size as you (or slightly bigger), continue to grow your market share, and eventually one day you can compete with the bigger guys.
We all start small, some providers die, others continue to live on, and grow into someone big.
One benefit you as a small provider has against the big providers is the fact you're likely to be able to offer better performance for your clients (which can win over B2B customers from the bigger guys, but at a higher price), additionally, you'll be able to offer your clients more personalized support, where they're no longer just a number, but rather they know they're with a provider that truly cares about providing an awesome service.
Going in small towards a big "fight" with someone 1000x bigger than you, will rarely result in anything good for you, they'll just eat you up (Unless you're a spy and can go in and ruin everything, but if that's the case.. utilize that skill).
I know many of us wanna grow into being a huge provider with thousands, hundreds of thousands or even millions of customers one day.. But we have to choose the right fights to make, and then make them good - and a good starting fight when you want to grow is to do it with someone at the same size or a bit bigger. There's likely a bigger chance of winning.
If that would be the case, they would likely never have introduced the packages for servers with a smaller set of accounts on them.
But we never know.
Everyone can speculate what was done and not done.
We have to keep in mind, that it's a very small subset of customers who actually publicly state their opinion about this change.
If you look over this 33 pages thread (and across other platforms like WHT etc) and you count the number of users that participated in it, it's actually a fairly low amount compared to the amount of "noise" it has made.
I'm sure cPanel has heard what people said, but on the other hand, some people have been super rude, to a level that is by no means acceptable, regardless of people agree or disagree with the changes.
I'm curious, what would your preferred pricing be, and what would your absolute maximum pricing be for cPanel? And let's set the rule that 1) A change is happening; 2) Usage-billed pricing is happening;
I know I can't do anything about the pricing, but I'm curious to hear what would actually be acceptable.
If you actually contact cPanel by other means than this (or any other of the pages long threads of people expressing their feelings) then you actually do get support, and they do communicate with you, regardless if you're a customer with 1 license or 10000 licenses.
I also don't think the currency exchange would be beneficial in the long run.
That's a question I have as well, but on the other hand, that's a question I've had since forever - I've never seen the point in keeping the pricing separate because people have been spawning just as big VMs (or sometimes bigger) than some people have dedicated servers.
With the old pricing, it even allowed people to simply deploy a dedicated server, install proxmox or libvirt on it, have a huge VM and simply get discounted licensing - one can also wonder whether that was ideal or not (I personally think it did lead to a lot of "lost" licensing income for cPanel), but on the other hand, I'm sure someone would have raged too if they'd have to pay $45 for a cPanel license for a VPS with 1 core, 2GB RAM and 50GB disk - so I think the question goes both ways.. Why should dedicated servers pay more, but on the other hand, why should VPS's pay less? Should it maybe depend on the number of cores, amount of RAM, or something different?
The pricing could have been done in any way - usage-based pricing on accounts kinda makes sense compared to RAM or CPU cores for example.
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Godddy, hostgator, bluehost, etc. I think the big companies got very good prices with special deals. Therefore, they will not make any price changes or account restrictions.
This is clearly unfair competition. Small and medium-sized companies will not have the same conditions and will not be able to compete with these large companies. Oakley capital (oakley robber) gives privileges to big companies, not customers, and drives small companies to go bankrupt.
Small and medium-sized companies do not only pay cpanel licenses. Cloudlinux, litespeed, softacalus, cxs, jetbackup, etc. it pays licenses for many additional software. Large companies are also getting cheaper licenses for these software with special agreements. There is certain injustice here. Customers were not opposed to increasing license prices, even the license plan at plesk was fine.
But 20 dollars for 5 domains, 30 dollars for 30 domains, 45 dollars for 100 domains and additional fees for each additional domain is a grim robbery.
This is clearly unfair competition. Small and medium-sized companies will not have the same conditions and will not be able to compete with these large companies. Oakley capital (oakley robber) gives privileges to big companies, not customers, and drives small companies to go bankrupt.
Small and medium-sized companies do not only pay cpanel licenses. Cloudlinux, litespeed, softacalus, cxs, jetbackup, etc. it pays licenses for many additional software. Large companies are also getting cheaper licenses for these software with special agreements. There is certain injustice here. Customers were not opposed to increasing license prices, even the license plan at plesk was fine.
But 20 dollars for 5 domains, 30 dollars for 30 domains, 45 dollars for 100 domains and additional fees for each additional domain is a grim robbery.
How you respond and take the time, LucasRolff you are an employee of CPanel
@Greg M
Bro - I sympathise with your plight, but you're banging your head against an (empty) wall here.... cpanel and Oakley don't give a flying - Removed - - as you've already mentioned. You just need to find an alternative... I'm not sure why you feel the need to close your business - sounds very dramatic!
Sure what cpainel have done is extremely immoral and corrupt - and it's a massive pain in the proverbial, however, you just need to try out some alternatives and say goodbye (or do as they say and just suck it up )
Take a look at e.g. Direct Admin or Centos Web Panel (free) or Virtualmin ?
Bro - I sympathise with your plight, but you're banging your head against an (empty) wall here.... cpanel and Oakley don't give a flying - Removed - - as you've already mentioned. You just need to find an alternative... I'm not sure why you feel the need to close your business - sounds very dramatic!
Sure what cpainel have done is extremely immoral and corrupt - and it's a massive pain in the proverbial, however, you just need to try out some alternatives and say goodbye (or do as they say and just suck it up )
Take a look at e.g. Direct Admin or Centos Web Panel (free) or Virtualmin ?
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Small correction, it's accounts and not domains.
No, I'm really not. The fact you come to that conclusion is just silly sir.
You right will be silly when your response to everyone, like writing a book. How you defend CPanel and how you act as well your response to others and try to look smart in front of everybody (FAIL) definitive you're an employee of CPanel.
I'll be honest with you, from the beginning I never have the patience to read all your book of CPanel(Comments) and how much you love them. I can see clearly you're here just for calm people and try to hide the truth about how CPanel screw everybody.
Regarding your opinions (RESPECT), but you got so far when none of us needs your opinions as an employee of CPanel.
Look on your comments (only critics of people and to much sugar to CPanel) c' mon
calm down Mr. employee of the MonthRespect to you Mr. Lucas (The employee of the Month). You should receive on this forum a STAR, BIG ONE!.
Thank you
Again, I'm not an employee of cPanelYou right will be silly when your response to everyone, like writing a book. How you defend CPanel and how you act as well your response to others and try to look smart in front of everybody (FAIL) definitive you're an employee of CPanel.
I'll be honest with you, from the beginning I never have the patience to read all your book of CPanel(Comments) and how much you love them. I can see clearly you're here just for calm people and try to hide the truth about how CPanel screw everybody.
Regarding your opinions (RESPECT), but you got so far when none of us needs your opinions as an employee of CPanel.
Look on your comments (only critics of people and to much sugar to CPanel) c' mon
Respect to you Mr. Lucas (The employee of the Month). You should receive on this forum a STAR, BIG ONE!.
Thank you
Whether you believe that or not is surely up to you.If I were an employee of cPanel, then I'd be quite sad, because I've yet to receive any salary then.
I can send you my tax filings for 2018 if you want
And when 2019 tax filings has been made, then I can also send you those. Because on those tax filings, you'd find my employers name.
I think that personal accusations against @LucasRolff need to stop.
Why are you so threatened by someone who is saying that for his business, the license increases were not such a big deal? He's sharing his side of the story, what's the problem with you attacking him like this?
You say that the license increases are a disaster for your business. It's your opinion, that's fine. It's your business. You know better.
He's saying that for him it's not. That's fine too. It's his business. He knows better.
For some, it's OK, for others not. This is business. Everything else is irrelevant.
Why are you so threatened by someone who is saying that for his business, the license increases were not such a big deal? He's sharing his side of the story, what's the problem with you attacking him like this?
You say that the license increases are a disaster for your business. It's your opinion, that's fine. It's your business. You know better.
He's saying that for him it's not. That's fine too. It's his business. He knows better.
For some, it's OK, for others not. This is business. Everything else is irrelevant.
wintech2003 I'm impressed, but where you see "threatened" No one is As he expresses his comment I will express mine. As he response like an employee of CPanel is my right to express my thoughts about it. I'm not allowed to share my thought about him YES I AM ALLOW )
So calm no one here starts to offense or agitate like you calm calm
Did I break any TOS? Nope.
Do I pick on him, Nope, do not confuse my thought about him, I will express every time my truth about his sugar Daddy for CPanel. Should I try to hide? why? because I feel a big disagreement on him and how he's acting and try to prove nothing only showing how child is he.
I hate to hide and I will continue to tell my opinion of his book for CPanel when he comments to other people trying to be smart and show nonsense on his arguments.
LucasRolff I don't care about your business but, you should receive a big STAR (Employee of Month)
As he expresses his comment I will express mine. As he response like an employee of CPanel is my right to express my thoughts about it. I'm not allowed to share my thought about him YES I AM ALLOW )So calm
no one here starts to offense or agitate like you calm calm Did I break any TOS? Nope.
Do I pick on him, Nope, do not confuse my thought about him, I will express every time my truth about his sugar Daddy for CPanel. Should I try to hide? why? because I feel a big disagreement on him and how he's acting and try to prove nothing only showing how child is he.
I hate to hide and I will continue to tell my opinion of his book for CPanel when he comments to other people trying to be smart and show nonsense on his arguments.
LucasRolff I don't care about your business
but, you should receive a big STAR (Employee of Month)
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If you don't understand why you can not make personal accusations against anyone in here, then I don't see any point trying to explain it to you, you will not understand anyway.
Of course, you can share your thoughts about the licensing increase - that's the point of this thread. But you can not attack someone who does not agree with you.
BTW my previous message was not addressed to anyone in particular, just a general observation that the discussion is going in the wrong direction. Not sure why you felt the need to reply...
Of course, you can share your thoughts about the licensing increase - that's the point of this thread. But you can not attack someone who does not agree with you.
BTW my previous message was not addressed to anyone in particular, just a general observation that the discussion is going in the wrong direction. Not sure why you felt the need to reply...
I think you make a big mistake when you start saying (BTW my previous message was not addressed to anyone in particular) Do you realize what do you say?
That was my whole point when LucasRolff starts commenting like he is Cpanel employee.
Can you see LucasRolff and wintech2003 you start contradicted your comment?
Why I start to pick on Lucas because he acting like an employee of CPanel and start commenting about each one what they should do, CPanel screws us and still after this time nothing change and I don't think will change it. As a partner, yes, BENEFITS
) massive discount and for small business MR Legend Lucas he is here to tell you as you can f*** off.Thank you
I work for cPanel. He doesn't. You can pick on me all day, but please stop disrupting the discussion attacking other users.
He's attempted to explain his thoughts on the new Pricing Structure, and you disagree with him. I got it. We've all got it.
Nothing you say to him is going to change anything having to do with what you pay for cPanel licenses. cPanel raised its prices, it's time to get on with it. If you want better pricing, please contact cPanel Customer Service about your options going forward. Or, contact your provider.
I will be happy if he will start to explain but look on his comments, he knows when Cpanel and Oakley have sat down. So base by his comment I believe is an undercover employee and I still believe it. You can't take that from me!
I'm not trying to take anything away from you, including your posting privileges on these forums for being disruptive to the discussion.
cPanel doesn't have undercover employees. Believe what you want, but please stop with the personal attacks.
Do I? Where do I point that out?
Let me quote myself, just so you can read it once again:
Does that say I know when they sat down? No, it does not.
When a company is going to change prices, key people within the organization tend to sit down, make a plan what has to be done and ensuring that they're able to get the required data to answer the questions that have to be answered.
Additionally, when a company happens to be owned by a parent company, it generally requires that this parent company gets involved one way or another, because the actions being taken can have a big impact on the companies.
That's really how things generally work. Core decisions of a company are usually discussed - so saying "I'm sure" simply states, we can very well assume that cPanel (Just like any other decent-sized company) actually discuss core decisions among the people it should be discussed.
If you, however, believe I've stated somewhere, that I know, when/how these discussions took place, then please feel free to point them out.
If you're not able to point that out, then please, stop accusing me.
Explain what? That I'm not a cPanel employee? I've said that multiple times, but it's somehow very hard for you to understand that.
On another note - I don't think to have the username LucasRolff really is that undercover, but what do I know
Google knows that name quite well. You suck at this undercover stuff, man.
Hahahaha, still writing like a book, it’s a massive difference when I’m trying to be ironic on his comments. You’ve to take a lot time to write your comments I suppose. Anyway still my opinion not change.
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