Would Admins like to see cPanel develop a chrooted system for each account?

  • Yes!

    Votes: 323 91.2%
  • No!

    Votes: 9 2.5%
  • What's chroot?

    Votes: 22 6.2%

  • Total voters
    354

Eugene Rozum

Registered
Dec 2, 2003
4
0
151
It's madness!

We wrote a demon which scans new users over 30 days and reports if something wrong is found!

We support free 15 days hosting. And each day we catch someone! It's completely madness to work like this!

If it will go like this we are going to Ensim soon. :(
 

Eugene Rozum

Registered
Dec 2, 2003
4
0
151
Re: It's madness!

Originally posted by Eugene Rozum
We wrote a demon which scans new users over 30 days and reports if something wrong is found!

We support free 15 days hosting. And each day we catch someone! It's completely madness to work like this!

If it will go like this we are going to Ensim soon. :(
I find it is waste of time writing here any pols. This is the reply from cPanel:

------------------------------------------------------------
cPanel supports jailshell to prevent users from accessing anything outside their home directory via SSH.


I know of no plans at this time to chroot
anything beyond this, unless you use vps to create virtual servers.

Thank you.




--
Michael Photakis
cPanel Support Staff
[email protected]

------------------------------------------------------------
 

Valetia

Well-Known Member
Jun 20, 2002
216
10
168
cPanel Access Level
Root Administrator
Re: chroot

Originally posted by Zamolxe
yes, i totally agree with a chrooted environment. but this will only increase the security on the web/customers side.

during these days i have ran some security tests on cpanel, and these are the problems that ocurred:

1. if the admin creates a demo account the system can be compromised via php. accesing the ftp with the default login you can place an evil php script and browse through system.
2. if a customers registers, he can compromise the system too, even if the functions exec, popen, etc. are forbidden. its all done because of the functions dir, fopen, show_source, etc.

Of course there are some minor methods with which you can prevent this, but the user still can get out of his box and 'see' private stuff like /etc/passwd

Here is what i recomand to all cpanel users:

1. When create a demo account, CHMOD -R 000 /home/demo, so if the user connects via ftp cannot manipulate the files
2. in php.ini do the following:

disable_functions = exec, passthru, shell_exec, system, popen, virtual, show_source, readfile, pclose

I am shure that the functions above will not affect you customers scripts. Thou if you restrict fopen or other file manipulating function, it will affect other possible non-harmful clients scripts.

NOTE: if you activate safe_mode, or open_basedir, you will have a lot of problems with the customers scripts.

3. disable anonymous acces
4. disable shell acces (i am shure that on a webhosting server this option is not necessarly needed)
5. disable cronjobs

hope this helps.

ps: i have tested and 'compromised' over 10 server till now with the bugs described above.
What is the issue with cron jobs? Also you've only touched on PHP, what about Perl and other CGI scripts.
 

Radio_Head

Well-Known Member
Verifed Vendor
Feb 15, 2002
2,051
1
343
Valetia said:
What is the issue with cron jobs? Also you've only touched on PHP, what about Perl and other CGI scripts.
cronjob = shell

I agree , other problem with perl , python ... the solution is chrooted env.
We are asking it from years , but as it seems it's not realizable.
 

SarcNBit

Well-Known Member
Oct 14, 2003
1,010
3
168
rs-freddo said:
I was wondering if anyone else would like to see cPanel Development move towards a proper chrooted environment for each hosting account. This is the future, but cPanel developers don't seem to know that. Ensim and Sphera both use this system now, with probably more panels to follow. Will cPanel admins be left way behind????

I see a new cPanel Pro version coming out basically with a name change, a few additions to the WHM menu and that's about it.

Would other admins like to see cPanel go to a fully chrooted system?
This poll has 192 yes votes versus 5 no votes (I imagine some of those may have just been people wanting to be different :) ). The last time I checked nothing had been done (other than the cPanel teams comments in this thread).

People want this. Better to bump an old thread than to start a new one.
 

chirpy

Well-Known Member
Verifed Vendor
Jun 15, 2002
13,466
31
473
Go on, have a guess
I imagine some of those may have just been people wanting to be different
I resent that remark :p

I was one of those 5. If I wanted such a server I would be offering VPS solutions, which is basically what you would need - the implications on performance (and indeed security of the server, which could be worsened) in attempting to do something like what's been suggested goes beyond the purpose of cPanel IMHO.
 

dgbaker

Well-Known Member
PartnerNOC
Sep 20, 2002
2,576
9
343
Toronto, Ontario Canada
cPanel Access Level
DataCenter Provider
Funny.... I was one of the other no's as well. Let alone some of the other concerns mentioned that I agree with, support can also get more complicated on top of all of the other things.
 

SarcNBit

Well-Known Member
Oct 14, 2003
1,010
3
168
thaphantom said:
I actually am anoter no too. Yes it may be a 'great' thing. But alot of **** would have to be rewritten completely. I dont think its worth it,
I do not think it is worth it at the expense of more pressing issues, but I am sure I voted yes. We do not have the need to offer shell access, but I feel that if it is offered, it should be implemented as securely as possible.

3 out of 5. Uh oh, my imagination may have run away from me :D Assuming one was nick, I am holding out for the last person just wanting to be different.
 

ntwaddel

Well-Known Member
Nov 3, 2003
173
0
166
Templeton, CA
I vote yes all the way! ensim WP does this. We could eliminate the cheezy jail if sshd was properly chrooted. No chroot is not perfect, but i think it would be a positive step towards security.
 

JayPee

Member
Mar 2, 2004
8
0
151
Coimbatore, India
Cpanel is a very user friendly controlpanel for part time admin's but it is very unsecure also. So Chroot'ed environment is the best way to secure the Cpanel.
 

Doobla

Member
PartnerNOC
Jan 2, 2003
17
0
151
Interesting that this thread is pretty dead. Glad I never switched from Ensim to CPanel when I was tempted. For all of those who think that chroot is a waste of time I suggest getting in touch with a server with Ensim Pro on it and really look how it is implemented. After all I've seen, I won't move to another panel until I see somebody offer as good a chroot system as ensim.

I like some of the niceties that CPanel offers but they are less important to me than sleeping better at night. In general I find it interssting, though, that it seems liek all of the control panels I have looked at, none of them seem to keep an eye on the competion closely. I mean, if I had my own panel software I'd have licenses for all the major players and be picking them apart.

By the way, the holes that made chroot insecure at one time have been plugged for quite some time now and even the vserver project site gives you a lesson on how some things can be further modified so as to prevent root access from occuring inside of the chroot. That just seems like a copout argument from the CPanel employee, but hey...it's just my opinion.
 

rs-freddo

Well-Known Member
May 13, 2003
834
1
168
Australia
cPanel Access Level
Root Administrator
We won't talk about Ensim upgrades will we....

I'm glad i moved from Ensim several years ago - never looked back. Even if cPanel doesn't offer chroot it's still a better product than Ensim.
 

Doobla

Member
PartnerNOC
Jan 2, 2003
17
0
151
rs-freddo said:
We won't talk about Ensim upgrades will we....

I'm glad i moved from Ensim several years ago - never looked back. Even if cPanel doesn't offer chroot it's still a better product than Ensim.
I understand your point of view as I have been frustrated myself over that very thing. I will say, however, that it has gotten much better and it basically painless now during upgrades. Even though ensim didn't officially support an in box fedora core 2 upgrade I was able to create one that, although time consuming, is really rather painless.

I'm not going to go into all the things I like that has changed about ensim or what not because I think it is generally disrespectful since this is CPanel's forums, but upgrades are not what they used to be on ensim.

All that said, I am glad you're happy freddo since I saw one of your posts in this thread was a statement about your next server being an ensim one because cpanel didn't have the chroot environment. Your current happiness with the cpanel product shows great improvement in the product over where it was at the time of that post.

Jon
 

nickb

Well-Known Member
Feb 25, 2005
347
0
166
India
Are you really serious bout it.......then please do it.