Discussion of MySQL 5.7 Support

[MadroosterTony]

As suggest by Benny from cPanel and that she has now locked the thread for any future comments, I am starting this thread for any future discussion of how / why cPanel has not added MySQL 5.7 support.

Add support for MySQL 5.7

 

[MadroosterTony]

List of scripts that have said they will not directly support MariaDB in the future, so while they may work, you will get no support from the developers

• Booked (sourceforge.net/projects/phpscheduleit/)
• Sendy (sendy.co/)
• Mautic (mautic.org)
• ArpReach (arpreach.com/)
• Sunshop (turnkeywebtools.com/sunshop/shopping-cart-software.html)
• Cubescripts (cubescripts.com/)
• Joomla (Current Alpha release)

 

[cPanelMichael]

Hello,

Thank you for taking the time to open this thread in order to offer feedback on that feature request. Note that anyone seeing this thread for the first time is still encouraged to vote for the feature request if you'd like to see it implemented.

Thanks!

 

[MadroosterTony]

With EOL of on MySQL 5.6 being less then a year a way and MySQL 8 being rumored to go gold soon, coupled with our customers are starting to demand MySQL 5.7, I am beginning to wonder what our future with cPanel will look like as a partner.

The fact that they just continue to push off this topic as they are sold on MariaDB only is disturbing to me. While we never "push" any of our software partners on any client, if a client is not committed to a control panel, then we always recommend cPanel.

Without some type of commitment from cPanel on this issue, I guess we will have to move to other options. Its been a good 13 years cPanel, wish it could have been more.

 

[cPanelMichael]

Hello @MadroosterTony,

I forwarded your feedback from this thread over to one of our Community Managers to ensure it's relayed through the proper channels (since comments are disabled on the corresponding feature request).

Thank you.

 

[Hosted Power]

Any update on this? We're also tired of waiting. DirectAdmin managed to support MySQL 5.7 within 1 week after we asked. Not kidding ...

 

[MadroosterTony]

Im afraid cPanel has shown to not care about this at all. I have even forwarded them documentation of sales that could have been to cPanel instead of DirectAdmin if they supported MySQL 5.7. Not that we wanted to sell the client DirectAdmin, the new client was needing (demanding) MySQL 5.7 for their project, but wanted a control panel. So DirectAdmin was our only option.

We even have a few clients that use a control panel that have development environments either locally or hosted where they are running MySQL 8.

As I stated early, we never push any of our software on any client, but when a client not having a preference needed a control panel, it was always cPanel. We added DirectAdmin a few years ago an alternative for a client that was tight on system resources but wanted a control panel still (Mainly VPSes).

When we first started we were SW Soft partners as well, but as cPanel and Plesk are considered direct competitors against each other and at that time cPanel was a better project we dropped our partnership with them. Now we are back in talk with them as they do support MySQL 5.7 and there is even talk that MySQL 8 can be made to work even though its still in development.

 

[MadroosterTony]

I am still waiting to confirm this, but one of our larger clients that runs multiple vBulletin message boards on their server, just informed us that vBulletin support will no longer help troubleshoot issues with MariaDB and a future updates are going to check and display nags that MySQL 5.7 should be used and some new features maybe disabled with out it.

I have reached out to vBulletin for confirmation, but if this is the case its going to make a bad day for multiple cPanel clients. Given that MySQL 5.7 well over a year old (Went GA - Oct 2015) and vBulletin's track record on requiring new versions of software at times, this does not surprise me at all.

 

[Infopro]

future updates are going to check and display nags that MySQL 5.7 should be used and some new features maybe disabled with out it.

This thread is two years old:
vbulletin 4.2.3 work with MariaDB - vBulletin Community Forum
From last month:
vBulletin 5.3.1 Connect is now available. - vBulletin Community Forum
Joomla:
[RFC] Officially Support MariaDB · Issue #14141 · joomla/joomla-cms · GitHub
Sendy:
Is MariaDB supported? - Sendy Forum

 

[MadroosterTony]

This thread is two years old:
vbulletin 4.2.3 work with MariaDB - vBulletin Community Forum
From last month:
vBulletin 5.3.1 Connect is now available. - vBulletin Community Forum
Joomla:
[RFC] Officially Support MariaDB · Issue #14141 · joomla/joomla-cms · GitHub
Sendy:
Is MariaDB supported? - Sendy Forum

The point is not if the applications listed will work with MariaDB? The point is, if I have an issue with the software related to the database, the paid software vendor will tell you "Sorry, you are using MariaDB and we do not provide support for it"

There are many applications that will work with Maria, but prime example we saw an issue recently where MySQL strict mode was causing a problem that we did not know existed until the software vendor dug into the configuration. As the software listed are paid solutions, support is expected. If they find out a client is running MariaDB, they will pass the issue off that and not provide any other support.

Also as I have stated before. Many clients are using some of the new features of MySQL 5.7 that are not in MariaDB. The said thing is as already noted its a quick fix to add 5.7 support as its only a minor issue that prevents it from working. But unfortunately this is something cPanel has to change.

We actually just deployed a development server a large client yesterday that they are making all future database development based on MySQL 8.x as its expected to be Gold soon and they fully expect their development process will allow for its release. Guess what, they have a control panel as well. Its Plesk and it works fine.

So for cPanel to 100% ignore this issue when their competition big and small is providing full support for MySQL and MariaDB both is not only stupid but will end up costing them a lot more clients.

 

[Infopro]

The point is, if I have an issue with the software related to the database, the paid software vendor will tell you "Sorry, you are using MariaDB and we do not provide support for it"

I could see that happening. I seem to recall reading threads a couple years ago about similar issues on WHMCS forums.

prime example we saw an issue recently where MySQL strict mode was causing a problem that we did not know existed until the software vendor dug into the configuration.

This?
MySQL :: MySQL 5.7 Reference Manual :: 1.4 What Is New in MySQL 5.7

SQL mode changes. Strict SQL mode for transactional storage engines (STRICT_TRANS_TABLES) is now enabled by default.

Many clients are using some of the new features of MySQL 5.7 that are not in MariaDB.

Could you link me to that earlier conversation or mention a few here?

To be clear, I'm not trying to argue with you on your points. I'm just digging for my own knowledge using your points to google with, trying to understand the need here.

I've been here a long time, cPanel does not ignore anything. cPanel doesn't do what other control panels do though, and that's why it's the hosting platform of choice!

 

[MadroosterTony]

To be clear, I'm not trying to argue with you on your points. I'm just digging for my own knowledge using your points to google with, trying to understand the need here.

I've been here a long time, cPanel does not ignore anything. cPanel doesn't do what other control panels do though, and that's why it's the hosting platform of choice!

To be fair, I am talking about our large client base which is primarily developers that work with specialized applications. From what we gather they are using Full JSON support, which is now included in MariaDB 10.2, but many are also using MySQL X Plugin which gives them the ability to mix a scheme and schema free database design. This gives them flexibility in design and the ability to take advantage the schema free features where needed in their code. The other feature we are starting to see requested is in delayed replication, but that presently is not really a client that would use cPanel.

Now our developers have also always been on the cutting edge, but we see what they do slowly become standards in the industry. For example we saw larvel adaptation long before it became main stream by many paid applications / scripts.

The other part of our client base is clients that use mainly commercial scripts as most of them are well established businesses and need the support of their software vendor when they encounter an issue. So as these commercial scripts are stating that they will work with MariaDB, but there will be no support if an issue comes up is highly concerning.

Also to be fair, the majority of dedicated clients do not use any control panel, but the fact that we havent sold a cPanel license in months to a dedicated client and clients are either going with DirectAdmin or bringing their own Plesk license with MySQL 5.7 being one of the main reasons is also what is raising huge red flags for us.

When I talk about what other control panels are doing I am talking about core support of main software all because cPanel decide for the community to bail on a industry standard because they felt MariaDB was better. And is come configurations it is, but in others MySQL 5.7 can be faster depending on the configuration. This the ridiculous part to me, especially when its been clearly documented that the only reason it will not work is due to way the user.password column works in 5.7.

Now if I was complaining because Litespeed decided to change their apache format configuration and the version was broke in cPanel, I would understand not rushing to support it.

But just for fun, lets look at the top 10 control panels (paid and not paid / in no particular order) used by the hosting industry today

cPanel - MySQL 5.7 Not Supported
Plesk Oynx - MySQL 5.7 Supported (Hack for MySQL 8.x)
DirectAdmin - MySQL 5.7 Supported
Centos Web Panel - MySQL 5.7 Supported
ISP Config - MySQL 5.7 Supported
InterWorx - MySQL 5.7 Supported
Webmin - MySQL 5.7 Supported
ISP Manager - MySQL 5.7 Supported
Vestacp - MySQL 5.7 Supported
Kloxo-MR - MySQL 5.7 Supported

All have had support since sometime in 2016, so at least 6+ Months. The fact that cPanel does not understand this is an issues is why I am amazed.

 

[MadroosterTony]

As I said previously in this thread. If cPanel is fine losing monthly income because of a core application in the LAMP stack, then so be it. We have been a cPanel partner for many years because they have been the leader in the market place, but when your customers are demanding an upgrade to a core application that has been out since 2015, it means we are not going to lose money by not being able to support them.

 

[MadroosterTony]

Perfect example just came in today. We got a client that found us on the cPanel partner site, that is looking to move from their exisiting host due to support issues and only having older hardware. This client has 5 cPanel servers at his current host. But one of those servers is primary filled with developers, true developers, not Wordpress Website creators. Several of those developers have been asking about MySQL 5.7 and his current host just kept telling him it would not work, but never would explain why.

I finally explained the issue to him and due to this one server being a significant contribution to his sales, guess what he is now leaving cPanel. More then likely he is going to purchase Plesk licenses, but is also going to review the DirectAdmin demo first.

So now is cPanel not only not getting new sales from us due to the lack of support of this core component, they are losing existing sales from existing clients that could have been a simple transfer due to this guy finding a new hosting company.

Great Job cPanel. Love the new business model.

 

[eva2000]

The other feature we are starting to see requested is in delayed replication

answered at cPanel and MySQL 5.7 abandonment. Where to go to? | Web Hosting Talk

delayed replication was added in MariaDB 10.2.3 Delayed Replication

 

[MadroosterTony]

That still does not solve the issue of MySql X Plugin which is the primary reason people are using MySQL 5.7

Or does its solve the issue with commercial script writers not providing support when MariaDB is used.

 

[eva2000]

indeed in that instance cPanel supporting MySQL 5.7 would be nice

 

[cPanelUser-Inactive]

Hey Tony! Thanks for continuing to push us on this, and for garnering public support for getting MySQL 5.7 supported. I know that our silence makes it feel like we're not listening, but I promise we are. We are taking how any change could potentially impact all of our customers (from single-website users to high-density shared hosting and everything in between) very seriously. A large part of the conversation is centered on what change will be made, if we do make a change. An example of one of the points of discussion: will we continue to support both MySQL and MariaDB long term and absorb the development time and cost related to that, or support just one over the other? We've discussed this recently, even as recently as our planning meeting for version 68 (more recently if we're counting email discussions).

All of that is to say this: I know it feels like we've decided already, but we're still discussing this internally. I won't be able to provide anything definite until we're done with those discussion, but know that we're all working to find the best long-term solution.

 

[MadroosterTony]

Benny,

We have two major issues with the support not being there.

1. Paying customers are demanding MySQL 5.7 from us, with cPanel not supporting it, we have no choice but to provide them something else, or lose the sale ourselves. We are seeing nothing but a dramatic increase of this from the beginning of the year. Almost to the point of every new server sale that is not a web hosting company looking to resell services is demanding it. However, many of these clients want some type of control panel to make basic management of multiple sites on the server easier. Recent efforts by our marketing team is making up grow like crazy and while I do not have the direct numbers, I do know our DirectAdmin licenses are way more then our cPanel licenses today. Thats not to say every single DirectAdmin license would have been a cPanel license, but I can tell you almost every DirectAdmin License is running MySQL 5.7.

2. MySQL 5.6 standard support ends in Feb 2018. While extended support is 2021, its our company policy to to run software for full support, especially with the way the hackers are getting more creative everyday.

While it has been stated else where that the planning for 68 was done. This means MySQL 5.7 will be pushed to 70 at earliest, which might be done by the end of the year.

I can understand needing to discuss long term implementation, but having seen the other control panels talk about fixing the issue with MySQL 5.7, it sounds like currently its a quick fix to add support for it. And everyday cPanel doesnt support it, they become a less important partner to us in the over scheme of our business. Which I absolutely hate as it has been a great product over the years and to see us shift to something else over a minor change seems silly to me, but we have long been successful for 13+ years by giving the public what they wanted and needed.

 

[eva2000]

Maybe cpanel needs a new tier beyond Edge releases for Experimental and push the newer bleeding edge or MySQL 5.7 support into that tier for folks to test ?