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EasyApache 3 Deprecation Schedule

Discussion in 'EasyApache' started by cPJacob, Jul 20, 2016.

  1. cPJacob

    cPJacob cPanel Product Owner
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  2. twhiting9275

    twhiting9275 Well-Known Member

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    How about providing a solid, stable replacement BEFORE tying to rush everyone onto garbage software... you know, like professional developers do.

    EA4 is not stable, or ready for any stable server
     
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  3. cPJacob

    cPJacob cPanel Product Owner
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    Hi,

    I beg to differ. EA4 is extremely stable once EA3 has been fully migrated. If you have any problems with EA4, please let us know by opening a ticket.

    Thanks!
     
  4. twhiting9275

    twhiting9275 Well-Known Member

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    Um, no, no it's not... it's not even close to stable.
    When software screws up so badly that a server format is required to fix it, that it's NOT stable software.

    Professional software development demands a fully stable, bug free replacement , for at least a year before deprecating or removing older versions. Given the most recent issues with pear and ea4, those requirements are not met.

    Nobody is going to open a ticket and put their server on hold for hours here. EA4 IS NOT STABLE
     
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  5. cPJacob

    cPJacob cPanel Product Owner
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    Hi,

    I don't want to argue, but if you've found any issues, please open a ticket so we can get them fixed.

    Thanks!
     
  6. twhiting9275

    twhiting9275 Well-Known Member

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    Why should we have to put our sites, our customer services at risk?
    EA4 is not stable, by any means. Again, I just look at the mess you caused with pear and PHP. That's all we need to know.

    Like I said in my last post, software development demands at least one year of bug free operation , which has not been met here.
     
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  7. cPJacob

    cPJacob cPanel Product Owner
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    HI,

    PECL and PEAR have been fixed as of v58.

    Let me know if you have any further questions.
     
  8. twhiting9275

    twhiting9275 Well-Known Member

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    [Mod Edit: off topic comments removed]

    Back to the topic at hand:
    EA4 is still broken, end of statement. It's not even out of beta testing (was it even tested)

    I've spent the past 6 hours now cleaning up from the mess of yet another EA4 failed migration, and I'm still not done.
    Open up a ticket, you say? Yeah, right... I can't afford to keep my sites down for hours on end while you ignore the ticket. Sorry, not happening.
     
    #8 twhiting9275, Jul 22, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 25, 2016
  9. cPJacob

    cPJacob cPanel Product Owner
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    Good morning,

    You keep saying EA4 is broken, but you're refusing to tell us about any of the problems you've found, so we can't make those better. I've reached out to WHMCS as well as you specifically mentioned that was broke, and they are telling me that they have found no issues, and that most of their automated testing is done w/EA4, so again, I'm not sure what you're referring to, and if you're unable to put in a ticket to tell us about those issues, there's nothing we can do.

    EA4 is going default, as it's been in the product for almost 2 years (since v52), and it's been matured to the point that it's ready for production. If you feel otherwise, please put in a ticket.

    Thanks
     
  10. Vipin Haridas

    Vipin Haridas Member

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    Hi,

    It looks like the new cPanel installations(58) doesn't include EA3. So, how can I use it if needed.

    Just found this thread.

    v58 – EasyApache 3 and EasyApache 4.
    • With the release of cPanel & WHM version 58, EasyApache 4 will be the default web stack on fresh installations. EasyApache 4 offers full parity with EasyApache 3, with improved install and configuration times. You’ll still be able to use EasyApache 3 if you prefer, with a bit of extra configuration first.
    Can anyone please instruct how to use EA3 with cPanel 58.

    Thanks!
     
  11. cPJacob

    cPJacob cPanel Product Owner
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  12. Vipin Haridas

    Vipin Haridas Member

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    Hi Jacob,

    Thanks a lot for the info.

    Regards,
    Vipin H
     
  13. mtindor

    mtindor Well-Known Member

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    I'd appreciate some clarification. All my servers run CloudLinux + CageFS + PHP Selector + EA3. Up until a few days ago i was running 54 LTS. My servers are now all on 56 LTS. I run EA3 across the board and likely will not be doing any EA3-->EA4 migrations anytime in the near future. Information in the cPanel docs regarding the EA3 deprecation schedule state:

    If my servers were all EA3 from the start and have not been converted to EA4, is it safe to move to 11.58? Will 100% of the EA3 functionality still be there? Is the "extra configuration" only something that people need to be concerned about if they want EA3 on a fresh WHM 58 install? I want to know that if/when I upgrade to WHM 58 I should not have any issues with my web service. If I'm on WHM 56 + EA3 and update to 11.58, do I still have the typical EA3 interface available to me? Is there any significant likelihood that my sites are going to stop working / that something in PHP Selector will get fudged up? When running EA3, is an update from WHM 56 to WHM 58 as stable and pain free as the update from WHM 54 to WHM 56 was?

    Does this also mean / suggest that if I'm running CloudLinux+CageFS+PHP Selector + EA3, I can safely and reliably upgrade all the way to WHM 60 (after updating to WHM 58) with confidence, not having to worry about PHP Selector breakage or Apache breakage?

    If no other question of mine is answered, please answer this: Can I expect to continue to update to WHM 58 and then WHM 60 while retaining 100% of my current EA3 / PHP Selector setup, and have complete confidence that the update to WHM 58 and then to WHM 60 will be smooth?

    I'm hoping to have the confidence [in both cPanel and CloudLinux] for me to migrate to EA4 before EA3 is EOLd. But, if I decide I'm going to run EA3 up to the very last minute, are my WHM 56->58 and WHM 58->60 updates going to be seemless like earlier updates have been?

    Mike
     
  14. cPJacob

    cPJacob cPanel Product Owner
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    Hi Mike,
    This is only for fresh installations. If you want EA3 on a fresh install, you need to do a bit of preconfiguration. It's fully safe to send your EA3 systems to v58, or even v60 when it gets here. We haven't touched EA3 yet.


    Correct.

    Yep, you should have no issues. We won't remove / touch EA3 until the majority of systems have moved over to EA4. However, if you're going to wait til the last minute to migrate, you're not doing yourself any favors. If you come across any big bugs or anything, waiting until the last minute to find / let us know about those isn't the way we want to go. I'd highly recommend checking out and start testing EA4 now, today, this week, ASAP. It'll only help you get there quicker with less mess :)

    I hope this helps sir!
     
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  15. mtindor

    mtindor Well-Known Member

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    Jacob,

    Thanks for the assurance that things should go fine for me, upgrading from WHM 56 to 58 and then from WHM 56 to 60 whilst still running EA3.

    Trust me, I don't want to wait until the last minute to migrate to EA4. I'd love to migrate all my servers this weekend. But seriously, I'm a small host and can't afford to have hundreds of customers down per machine for potentially hours upon hours if something goes wrong. I'd prefer to see <insert the name of any big company who runs cPanel> migrate a considerable server base over first. Why? Because they can afford to have 1000 angry customers at a time and their business wouldn't go under / nobody would be out of work / they would have a collective of admins [and the attention of cPanel / CL] to help them get things resolved.

    I'd prefer to let "the big guys" be the ones to help you discover anomalies in the process so that they can be fixed in future updates and I don't have the issues :) Being a small hosting company, I don't have the luxury of alienating hundreds of customers due to a botched upgrade that I didn't need to perform. The big guys can afford to lose thousands of customers at once and everyone would go home and sleep that night.

    At the very least, I would think that before I attempt to migrate from EA3 to EA4, I should be running the most recent Release (such as 58 Release) instead of 56 Release. Wouldn't that be recommended by you/cPanel as well?

    Mike
     
  16. rpvw

    rpvw Well-Known Member

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    Hi mtindor,

    I thought I would share my experiences with upgrading a production server from 11.56.0.32 to 11.58.0.20

    For the comparison (after upgrade), here are my server specs:

    redhat-release:CloudLinux Server release 6.8 (Oleg Makarov)
    version:11.58.0.20
    envtype:standard
    CPANEL=release
    Server version: Apache/2.4.23 (Unix)
    Server built: Jul 26 2016 20:51:39
    Cpanel::Easy::Apache v3.34.3 rev9999 +cloudlinux
    PHP 5.6.24 (cli) (built: Jul 26 2016 20:53:43) Copyright (c) 1997-2016 The PHP Group
    Zend Engine v2.6.0, Copyright (c) 1998-2016 Zend Technologies with the ionCube PHP Loader v4.7.5, Copyright (c) 2002-2014, by ionCube Ltd.
    mysql Ver 15.1 Distrib 10.0.26-MariaDB, for Linux (x86_64) using readline 5.1

    Processor: Intel Xeon E3-1240v3, 3.40GHz, 8 Logical Cores
    Memory: 8GB RAM

    Now I wish I could say that the upgrade went perfectly ..... oh wait..... IT DID !! :-D

    The only hick-up I experienced was the on screen output (I did the upgrade inside WHM not as a CL) stopped at
    Code:
    Running horde-db-migrate for “abcdefghi”.
    The system is archiving the Horde data to the “/home/abcdefghi/.cphorde/meta/horde.backup.sql.20160817” file.
    The system is cleaning the old Horde data archives.
    I left it for some time then checked to see if upcp had completed, and the logs actually revealed that the processes had continued after my on-screen output had stopped, and that the whole upgrade completed successfully.

    I was delighted with the smooth upgrade, and the obvious amount of care and attention that the developers had put into this part of the codebase.

    The next trick is reviewing all the new features and settings that this version offers - it is well worth methodically working through them all, and setting them up to suit your clients.
     
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  17. mtindor

    mtindor Well-Known Member

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    Are you sure you aren't logged into one of my servers? Very similar setups.

    Good deal. Thanks for the positive report. I figured that while I continue to hash out when I will migrate to EA4, I should continue to keep WHM on the latest version if at all possible and familiarize myself with new features. And I agree about the methodical approach. I really hate surprises, especially those that occur due to my lack of reading release notes and reviewing new settings.

    I might move up to 58 this weekend. Even though I'm still on EA3, I'll feel much better once everything is on 58.

    Mike
     
  18. cPJacob

    cPJacob cPanel Product Owner
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    Mike,

    I can totally understand your hesitance on migrating your systems over full blast. For hosts that have a customized web stack, the last thing you want to do is a migration like this on a big scale on one fell swoop. We've had a few partners already migrate over to EA4, and their provided feedback has allowed us to make major migration improvements in v58. Also, there's a ton more coming in v60 (already in EDGE :) ).

    By chance have you gotten to test out EA4 with any of your platforms yet? I'd highly recommend testing out the migration processes for yourself, seeing where there could be improvements, where it caused you problems. With your feedback now, when you're ready to start migrating your user base later down the line, most of the bugs you've found early are worked out and you'll have a great experience. Also, we offer free development licenses for testing, so if you have a spare VM, I'd recommend reaching out to cs [ at ] cpanel.com, and request one. It'll allow you to start testing EA4 now, so you're not surprised when you move your customers over.

    Huge platform changes like this aren't always pretty, and we can't expect it to go 100% all the time, (although as a Product Owner, I want things to be 100% right the first time, but that rarely happens). We've had EA4 in the product now for 3 releases (since v52), and during the past year of it being public, we've gotten minimal feedback, and I've personally had to push for a lot of that. I bet my co-workers here at cPanel don't want to read another "Have you tried EA4 yet!?!?!" email from me haha. During the past year, we've made improvements on what we got feedback on, and what we thought would be issues. Now that we've pushed it main stream, the feedback we've gotten has been incredible, and we're working hard in the background to make improvements on everything we're hearing. The smaller stuff we're pushing into v58 (PHP version & handler persistence, migration hooks, etc), and we're pushing our bigger, more risky items into v60 (EA4 Migration UI, Migration Pre-flight checks, User EA3 php.ini -> EA4 php.ini converter, and more).

    My primary goal over the upcoming months is ensuring our customers have a smooth migration from EA3 -> EA4, and we won't be getting rid of EA3 until that process is not only smooth, but until the majority of users have migrated over. Your feedback is crucial in making this a success. A lot of <insert big shared hosts names here> will find issues, but they have a tendency to fix them on their own, and not report them back to us. This could be from a small bug, to a "Ya know, we can do this better, or in a different way", to anything. Sometimes I reach out, or I hear things in passing or sometimes I see them on WHT / IRC. If that feedback never makes it way back to us, we don't know it's an issue, and we'll probably not see it until later.

    Anyway, thanks for listening to my rambling. In the end, feedback is crucial, not only from big hosts, but from smaller hosts, developers, integrators, single site hosts, everyone. I hope you get time to check it out soon!
     
  19. mtindor

    mtindor Well-Known Member

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    No I have not. I've got six accounts left to migrate off of my oldest machine. I was going to go through the process of migrating that machine to EA4 with some old test accounts on it after I got production customers off it.

    This is [welcomed] news to me. I do have a spare VM and would love to do just as you suggest. I'll reach out to CS.

    Historically I've never been one to provide much in the way of constructive feedback. Just don't have time / am not willing to devote the time. The only time you hear from me is when something is wrong, and I rarely write up suggestions as to what I think could be done to improve things. But I will try to adjust my ways a little bit and give feedback when I can.

    Thanks for your thoughtful responses. I know it's hard to respond with a reasonable response when everyone [like myself] is flying off the handle ;)

    Onward and upward, but at a reasonable pace. I'll get a dev license and check out EA4, and I'll still plan to do an EA3-EA4 migration on the soon to be decommissioned server. Maybe, just maybe, I could actually migrate to EA4 this year. I really would love to do that.

    Mike
     
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  20. twhiting9275

    twhiting9275 Well-Known Member

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    Here's the thing regarding all of this:

    Obviously, feedback isn't "critical to making this a success". if it was, we wouldn't be here, what, 3 years down the road now, with catastrophic failures.

    I understand you want to move on from EA3, and, great. However, you're putting customer servers at risk here.. You're putting critical services at risk, without providing a stable alternative.

    Just because you think it's stable doesn't mean it is. Simply dismissing the statements, or attacking those that have made them (from personal experience) doesn't mean the problem is going away.

    As a company, you need to step back, and return to the position of the customer here. What you're demanding (essentially) is ludicrous. You're telling everyone 'Hey, you must switch now', when , honestly, there hasn't been a 'stable' version released, without any sort of issues.

    I'll give this one more shot at some point this weekend, but I'm not going to be 'reporting' anything to cPanel, or waiting your typical hours on end for ticket responses. That's just outrageous. I wouldn't expect this from clients, and it's just silly to expect that from us.

    I expect, when something like this takes place (and most do) that it is seamless. NO issues, whatsoever. Historically, however (and I've tried this, going on 4 times now), not the case. Too many permissions issues, too many loader issues. Just a huge, huge mess :(
     
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