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For the love of god, STOP modifying configuration files without request!

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by twhiting9275, Mar 17, 2009.

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  1. twhiting9275

    twhiting9275 Well-Known Member

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    This is getting annoying as all hell here, please, STOP modifying configuration files (httpd specifically) without any request to specifically do so, and then, only ADD the necessary values.

    For the past 3 months, I've had to fight CPanel for control over the apache configuration files here. Nothing major, just something small (ie: remove /mailman/ to be PCI COMPLIANT). Every time I remove it, and restart httpd, it tests fine, yet the next week, it's right back there.

    Now I know nobody's adding things to the httpd files, as I'm the only one with root access (and I haven't added any accounts, as it's a personal server). I don't know WHAT cPanel/WHM is doing to automatically add this, but it is annoying as all hell. I have my configuration files set a specific way, please show some sort of respect to your customers and KEEP them that way, instead of adding what you want whenever you want, without being asked (or told) to!

    Is it a hassle? Yes. Is it a big problem? No, but come on now, respect your client's time here. I just wasted 8 hours on numerous scans to have to do them again, because you felt the need to add this unnecessary and ridiculous line to configurations! At least respect your customers enough NOT to force them to use your default garbage!
     
  2. LiNUxG0d

    LiNUxG0d Well-Known Member

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    Hi,

    I understand your frustrations.

    Please keep in mind that cPanel doesn't do this maliciously. The simple facts are that since EA3 (Easy Apache 3) there have been several improvements created to remove direct updates to httpd.conf.

    Take a read: http://www.cpanel.net/support/docs/ea/ea3/ea3.html

    The documentation is long and tedious but complete and explains what is what. Essentially, you shouldn't be editing the VHosts directly anymore. You should simply edit the /var/cpanel/userdata/username/ files and using /scripts/rebuildhttpdconf. You shouldn't ever need to directly edit the file. There are a BUNCH of includes now being used to create clean, customizable and portable changes to httpd.conf.

    I was in your shoes. But I see clearly now. Read the docs. I think it'll help you quite a bit. Also, notice how the httpd.conf reads:

    Code:
    #   This configuration file was built from the following templates:                                             #
    #     /var/cpanel/templates/apache2/main.default                                                                #
    #     /var/cpanel/templates/apache2/main.local                                                                  #
    #     /var/cpanel/templates/apache2/vhost.default                                                               #
    #     /var/cpanel/templates/apache2/vhost.local                                                                 #
    #     /var/cpanel/templates/apache2/ssl_vhost.default                                                           #
    #     /var/cpanel/templates/apache2/ssl_vhost.local                                                             #
    
    You can try editing those or others indicated in the current httpd.conf to tweak your settings, then rebuild. Way better. :)

    Again, I know your pain. Just read the docs... they'll soothe you. Or should. ;) It's progress.

    Warmest regards,
     
  3. twhiting9275

    twhiting9275 Well-Known Member

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    Nothing like being told to RTFM. Here's the deal though:
    Firstly, I'm not going to read through countless pages of boring assed, poorly thought out, poorly designed documentation. I shouldn't HAVE to. I've already had to read through apache's documentation, php's documentation, every other bit of documentation. LEAVE MY CONFIGS ALONE!

    This isn't caused by ea3, I haven't rebuilt apache at all. I haven't ADDED anything, I haven't MODIFIED vhosts, I haven't done anything to these servers at all, so there is no excuse for adding lines I have taken out of apache configs back in, none whatsoever.

    This isn't my fault here, this is cPanel's fault. CPanel shouldn't be modifying anything unless it is specifically asked to, and then, only do what it is told to do! Nowhere, ever, did I say "add the /mailman/ line back to apache", yet, it's done it repeatedly now, without being asked to, without being told to.
     
  4. mtindor

    mtindor Well-Known Member

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    If you had edited the proper files and rebuilt, you wouldnt' have this problem. LinuxGod was very courteous in his post - It's very dfficult to tell somebody to read the documentation without them figuring you are just saying RTFM! But he gives sage advice.

    You need to cool down and recognize that by now it IS your fault. EA3 has been around quite a long time now - It's no secret that there is a specific way to make changes that will persist across updates. Follow those instructions and you will be fine.

    Mike
     
  5. twhiting9275

    twhiting9275 Well-Known Member

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    This is not my fault. Stop trying to pass off poor programming and design as "the user's fault". I never, once authorized CPanel to put that line back into the configuration, EVER

    This is the fault, and responsibility of one thing: CPanel, nothing more.
    I never authorized CPanel to modify my configs. I never asked them to do so, never added any accounts, nor did I make any changes to CPanel. Yet, on a weekly basis, that configuration file is modified, and the mailman crap is added back in there. How is it my fault that CPanel took it upon themselves to take over configurations? How is it my fault that an overzealous control panel has attempted things it was never given permission to?

    Should I read the manual? I shouldn't have to. Good god, I've read enough manuals in my lifetime, I shouldn't have to continue to read crap that is poorly designed, boring, all too technical, and just piss poor to begin with. I know what I'm doing when it comes to most things (including apache), I shouldn't HAVE to read CPanel's snoresville manuals to figure out how to get THEM to stop overwriting MY configuration! THEY should ask ME if I want the configuration directives re-added, NOT the other way around!
     
  6. Infopro

    Infopro cPanel Sr. Product Evangelist
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    Why not just run the server without cPanel then? It's a personal server and you've read all the docs, why would you even need cPanel on it?


    Great comeback to RTFM. Only one problem, in that manual you don't wish to read, it explains how you can make changes that will stick.

    If you feel there is a bug, put in a bug report. Or, swap out to decafe. :p

    By your post it sounds like the server blew up due to the change you didn't save properly that got overwritten.
     
  7. LiNUxG0d

    LiNUxG0d Well-Known Member

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    Well, you do agree to their TOS when installing the software. Part of the software is their EA3 build and frankly, I think that you're becoming really irate for nothing here. When they switched over to EA3, they re-vamped how Apache works so that it is more flexible and less prone to being locked or losing data in the httpd.conf when changes are taking effect. Kind of like saying two people are editing at one time, who's save is the last save? Well, the facts are if each user edited their own vhost include and ran /scripts/rebuildhttpdconf, it would save EVERYONE headaches and it would work the first time around... this is an ENHANCEMENT not a DRAWBACK.

    Any valid - and competent - computer programmer knows that including files is better than writing everything in one file... minimizes damage when coding and increases clarity when debugging or modifying.

    You're right, it is definitely cPanel's "fault" that they made their system better. The fact is, you're still editing httpd.conf directly and not removing the directive from the includes. It's not gonna work with EA3 that way - direct edits - and regardless of your frustrations, it will always be like that from now on. So you HAVE to go onwards and upwards. I was cordial and nice in my first post, but now I have to tell you straight, RTFM. Plain. Simple. Do it. We all did it, we're all happy we did. End of story.

    You don't HAVE to read the manual. But just like in school, if you didn't read the lessons, you'd have trouble in the exams. If you don't do it the right way, you can be sure your customers will clue in when their sites start breaking or changes don't stick. I noticed you run a technical support business, so I really really REALLY recommend you read the docs.

    In a Utopic world, yes, THEY would ask YOU what you want, but this is not Utopia, and although it isn't, cPanel are still setting forth changes that make Apache a better beast to work with in the long run. Manual changes are really awesome. Includes are a long-term change to making rebuilds and multi-edit easy and simple and non-restrictive.

    We're all trying to be diplomatic. It's your turn to take the URL and read the manual. I'm sure another 100 or so users can chime in to affirm what I'm saying. That, or keep opening cPanel tickets asking their tech support to squander their time on issues they shouldn't be focusing on.

    Regards,
     
  8. twhiting9275

    twhiting9275 Well-Known Member

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    Nope, not at all. Read through the thread before making wild accusations like that. I'm just tired of dealing with CPanel taking "control" of things it was never, ever asked to do.

    Why use CPanel? Because it makes things easier to deal with in the long run (usually). I haven't had but a few issues with things, and those typically get resolved, because I'm relentless .

    In this case, nothing "blew up". I'm simply tired of having to repeatedly make changes to configuration files because some idiotic software thinks it knows better than I do! Trying to deal with PCI is hard enough WITHOUT trying to have to deal with CPanel's crap continually re-adding my changes to the systems.

    Sure, that's a given, but any "valid and competent" programmer ALSO knows that you DON'T make things impossible to figure out, and you DON'T force people to read through thousands of pages of worthless, poorly written, boring as hell manuals. This has nothing to do with an "include" file, it has everything to do with a poorly written program.

    A properly written program wouldn't add things back to the configuration (esp. the general configuration which should NEVER be re-added to the system) without asking.

    A PROPERLY written program wouldn't take it upon itself to modify configuration files and directives WITHOUT being asked to (ie: it does it on it's own), or told to. Not once in 3 months have I added an account to those servers, not ONCE in 3 months have I deleted an account from those servers, or modified anything in cPanel. This is, in fact cPanel doing things on it's own, without being told to, or asked to.

    The funny thing:
    I can (and do) modify httpd configurations on cPanel servers (the same ones) all I like. From adding modules (evasive, httpbl, dnsbl, etc), and their configurations to actually removing stuff. The adds stick around (I've had dnsbl and httpbl in there for over a year now), yet removing things don't. OBVIOUSLY, this is a problem on CPanel's end, parsing something somewhere, or dealing with things when told not to (or the opposite).

    I have no problem reading through well written (and necessary) documentation, but sitting around, reading docs for the hell of it, not exactly something I'm going to do. This is a problem, it's not a huge one, but it's STILL a problem. Should I have to read through cP boring documentation to learn to "administrate" my server (that's a joke in itself)? Absolutely not. Should I have to read through boring cP documentation to learn WHY cP is modifying my configs (again, without request, or being told to)? Absolutely NOT! Should the program STOP modifying things without request? Absolutely, definitely!

    BTW:
    The "templates" aren't what's adding mailman back in! I've already gone through and removed everything from the "templates" and "include" files. The mailman lines are added somewhere (god knows where) else.
     
  9. LiNUxG0d

    LiNUxG0d Well-Known Member

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    It's not just parsing "something somewhere", it's parsing the main non-vhost config file which is located here: /var/cpanel/conf/apache/main

    Of course, you would have KNOWN that if you would have READ the manual that I took 10 minutes to gander at to figure out:

    http://www.cpanel.net/support/docs/ea/ea3/ea3_changes.html

    Do a search for "mailman" and you'll notice:

    Code:
          -
            path: /usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/cgi-bin/
            url: /mailman
    
    Once that's removed, the /mailman URL will no longer be valid. After you run the /scripts/rebuildhttpdconf...

    It's not "reading docs for the hell of it", it's reading docs to become more learned in your field. EA3 isn't the same as your previous run-of-the-mill Apache. It's glorified and made in sections to create harmony, not disarray. You're REALLY confused here. Had you read the docs like a good tech, you would know.

    Let me guess, you just ./configure, make and make install anything right? You don't read the README? Maybe you should start.

    No problem for me or others who posted on this thread, because they enlightened themselves as did I. I can't respect your opinion because it's founded on nothing at all. Your foundations are that "things should not change and should stay the same and if they don't, why should I have to change"?

    Buddy, life is full of changes. cPanel have an AMAZING piece of software here and you're getting all up in people's - who are trying to help - faces. All for what?

    Because you're lazy. You're too lazy to read the documentation. The documentation created BY cPanel to help users. Users like me. Users like you.

    Well, I wouldn't go that far. I'm not a user like you... that's for darn sure.

    My 0.02$, glad I could help...
     
    #9 LiNUxG0d, Mar 17, 2009
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2009
  10. twhiting9275

    twhiting9275 Well-Known Member

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    Which I had already gone through, nice try though. There were no references to that there.

    More like it's crap!

    If I can ADD things to apache configurations without having them being removed, then taking them away should work just the same. EA3 isn't anything "glorified" at all, it's utter garbage. EA3 tries to take more and more control from the end user.

    In this case, the problem is partially my fault, as I found the problem (forgetting to run the distiller), but it's not completely my fault, as, again, I've had things added in there for a year or better (most recently added 2 weeks ago), without running that that didn't get erased, so, somehow, the changes get parsed, but not fully.
     
  11. LiNUxG0d

    LiNUxG0d Well-Known Member

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    Haha. :P Ok. Sure. If it helps you sleep at night.

    Next time, use the documentation. Read it. It's there for a reason.

    That's all I have to say. Anything else that's said will obviously just fuel a blazing cPanel-hatred fire in you that... really... nothing can put out. Not even reason.

    Good luck in your travels,
     
  12. twhiting9275

    twhiting9275 Well-Known Member

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    That's almost funny, but hugely inaccurate. I have no "hatred" for cpanel, flaming or not. I DO hate poorly put together, and poorly defined software, and software that steps WAY out of bounds (which this does in this case), but I do NOT hate cPanel.

    Think whatever you want. The docs in this case helped none at all. Of course, the one line at the top of the config telling me to run distiller helped, so I guess the "docs" did help a bit.

    The point here, despite the massive "RTFM" attitude is that this shouldn't be. Sure, I should have run distiller, but more than that, the files SHOULDN'T have been changed to begin with. No accounts were added, no configurations were changed, nothing, so, cPanel is "magically" (heh) modifying configurations now? On multiple servers?
     
  13. LiNUxG0d

    LiNUxG0d Well-Known Member

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    *shakes head disappointingly*

    Aide toi, et le ciel t'aidera.
     
  14. jasonhk

    jasonhk Well-Known Member

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    wow, the first thing that poped into my mind was the distiller, I haven't read the manual I've just glanced over a few apache files on my cPanel server and happened to pick that up. :rolleyes:
     
  15. britsenigma

    britsenigma Well-Known Member

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    Some people should just work at McDonalds...
     
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