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FrontPage Extensions, Web Dav, .htaccess

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by leighj, Apr 12, 2008.

  1. leighj

    leighj Well-Known Member

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    I figured that this may be the best forum for this question.

    I'm currently running stable and in a bit will be upgrading the OS/Hardware etc and migrating to a new box.

    I'd like to move a lot of the clients/sites from using FrontPage Extensions to webDAV. (FTP is TOO COMPLICATED for many FrontPage users)

    A few question
    • Can webDAV and FrontPage Extensions run on the same server NOT the same account?
    • A few clients use passworded folders (via the FPSE admin) while I know that webdav wont just take and convert these. Will they be able to create 'private' passworded parts of the site without much trouble.
    • How difficult will it be to convert from a FP site to a webdav (outside of form processing which I've already migrated most of the clients to a better captcha/anti-spam solution) this means more along the lines of .htaccess files.
    • Can you have multiple editors for a site with different usernames/passwords?
    • While I know webdav handles a lot of this well how well does Cpanel handle it?

    Just a few questions if anyone has any answers
     
    #1 leighj, Apr 12, 2008
  2. nyjimbo

    nyjimbo Well-Known Member

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    Man, I would love to hear about how this process goes for you. I try to get some of my smarter customers to do this sort of thing and they fight it every step. It's amazing how many of them cannot even remember how they use FP, its become just a series of keystrokes and mouse clicks, most cannot do anything out of the ordinary and any extra steps screws them up.

    We should start a master thread on this sort of thing, that is getting users to dump FP, what works and what doesnt. Maybe we can come up with some PDF files to help them or guidance for what programs or tools they could use instead.
     
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    #2 nyjimbo, Apr 12, 2008
  3. cPanelKenneth

    cPanelKenneth cPanel Development
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    There is supposed to be some incompatibility with running mod_dav (WebDAV) and Frontpage Extensions (FPSE) on the same server, irrespective of the actual account. It's simply the fact of having Apache configured for both. However, I'm unable to find the specifics at the moment.

    cPanel provides WebDisk, an implementation of WebDAV that runs separate from Apache. There is no (reported) incompatibility between having FPSE installed on the same server. Since WebDisk runs on separate ports, the change of incompatibility is lessened.

    All WebDAV (and our WebDisk implementation) provides is publishing support, in the context of this discussion. Any password folder features will work as long as the Frontpage client application is:
    a. creating .htpasswd files that Apache understands; and
    b. is modifying the .htaccess file appropriately

    Yes.



    Further notes:

    One thing to keep in mind if using mod_dav, the Apache WebDAV implementation. Apache will need full read/write/delete access to the folders and files available in the published site. This is because it is an Apache module, thus all interaction with the filesystem is done as the Apache user.

    While one can setup certain degrees of access via usernames and passwords, that is purely for authentication and authorization. The process is stilled performed as the Apache user.

    It was for the above reasons we decided to implement our own WebDAV application, Web Disk. File system operations are performed as the cPanel account owner, not as Apache. At this time, Web Disk is not a complete implementation as we do not provide the locking feature. This would allow one Author to lock access to a file, to prevent updates to it while editing the file.
     
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    #3 cPanelKenneth, Apr 12, 2008
  4. leighj

    leighj Well-Known Member

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    Webdisk - Expression Web

    I'm still testing this but so far everything works well when opening a site live in Expression via the web disk method. It's MUCH easier to maintain users than the FP Admin page and HTTPS publishing is there.

    I now have to create detailed instructions and give them to a crash test dummy.

    Leigh
     
    #4 leighj, Apr 14, 2008
  5. sneader

    sneader Well-Known Member

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    Hi Leigh. Just curious how things are going? I would sure like to see those instructions, if you are willing to share. I have a potential customer asking if I support Microsoft Expression Web, and so I'm trying to learn as much as I can about it.

    Thanks!

    - Scott
     
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    #5 sneader, Apr 26, 2008
  6. leighj

    leighj Well-Known Member

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    Ok here are the 'GOOD THINGS'
    • It works relatively well you can open and work in FP and EW. File look like the do normally and you can do pretty much all the editor functions.
    • Multiple users and passwords and .htaccess modifications are FINE.
    Now for the bad parts
    • Form Submission - They cannot just create a form with the defaults. You'll have to install/use another form processing method.
    • Web Bots - Many clients use the FP include webbot. It is supported by EW but just not a menu item. (there is a LOT of debate on it) You must manually open each page instead of recalculate hyperlinks. This puts a bit of a damper on editing the include and having it update all the pages.
    • DWTs - I suspect that these will have the same problems.
    • Finally the funky url http://sitename.com:port is a bit difficult for people to understand.

    For me the way to say it is that you support publishing sites with EW but not some of the server side functionality (ASP.Net etc) I've still not forced any clients yet. Still getting the inhouse people to try it out.
     
    #6 leighj, Apr 26, 2008
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