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How not to ask for support

Discussion in 'E-mail Discussions' started by haze, Apr 9, 2005.

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  1. haze

    haze Well-Known Member

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    I've got 2 things to say:

    Point 1
    Ok, people there seems to be far to many threads with people that are having difficulties getting support from these forums. First let me point out that, these forums are NOT an official means of support for cPanel. The proper means of support is as follows:

    If you purchased a license from cpanel, use the support function in your cPanel.

    If you purchased cpanel from a distributor, or a server with cpanel included, you must first go to your provider for support. If they can not help you, you should either have them contact cpanel. Failing that, find a new host, but in the interm, use the support fuction ( DO NOT OVERDUE IT ) within your cPanel.

    Some might say that cPanel support is lacking. Well guess what people. In the 4 years i've used this software, I have to say, that cPanel has provided the greatest support than any other software vendor I know of. Not only do they go above and beyond the call of duty, but they provide a stucture where we have different levels of gaining support. Not just through our providers, but directly through them as well.

    That said. A lot of people tend to try and exaust cPanel support and then whinge and whine when they get a slow or not so decent response. The tech's are not perfect, though they do a damn fine job at doing what they do. I for one commend them! Good on ya folks!

    Point 2
    Now, I think a lot of the forum regulars will agree with this next statement. A lot of people seem to be getting quite testy when they aren't provided with a prompt responce on these forums.

    People.. most of us visiting these forums are here taking time out of OUR day, where we could be EARNING MONEY for doing what we do. Heck, I charge a standard rate of $70 per hour. Figure I spend 2 hours at least per day here trying to lend a hand that $140 I've given up.

    What do we get out of it?
    http://forums.cpanel.net/showthread.php?t=37543
    http://forums.cpanel.net/showthread.php?t=37833

    Thats just today. This sort of thing happens day in and day out.

    Not only do we feel used for being called unhelpfull etc. etc. but it seems the fruits of our work go unappreciated. These forums are FILLED with information. Chances are, if you have a question to ask 95% of them are already answered on these forums. Thats not to say its not worthy of being further discussed. But when you ask a question thats been answered before multiple times, and could be easily sought after by using the handy search function.

    All I'm trying to say here is if you want help from those of us that are here to help, don't put us down because we're not fast enough, or we don't give you the perfect answer. We're not perfect, don't expect us to be, just as we don't expect anyone else visiting these forums to be. Have a little respect, we are a community and we're all part of the family.

    Also.. I think some of you might benefit by reading the following: How to ask questions, the smart way

    Thank you, good day and good posting :)

    P.S. The above are my own thoughts and feelings, though I think a lot of people will feel the same way. I am in no way representing or speaking on behalf of the cPanel staff.
     
    AlaskanWolf likes this.
  2. K_aneda

    K_aneda Well-Known Member

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    I don't blame you one bit. It's hard enough getting PMs from people expecting everything for nothing, let alone expecting instant replies to their issues or doing all the work for them. Give us a break.
     
  3. plake

    plake Active Member

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    I agree with ya... thanks for the insight too
     
    #3 plake, Apr 10, 2005
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2005
  4. gorilla

    gorilla Well-Known Member

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    Bugga Mate ! Glad you clarified this for our new forum members ;)
    I personally would like to suggest to open a second section in this forum , which is reserved for members with at least 50 posts and above for more serious admin issues to be discussed, as at the moment the forum is all mixed up with either true knowledge of experienced sys-admins or opinions with attitude of young script kiddies or would like to be webmasters, who just want mummy to do the work for them :D
     
    #4 gorilla, Apr 10, 2005
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2005
  5. kris1351

    kris1351 Well-Known Member

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    I used to help out a lot more around here till people started getting testy with you attempting to help you. Hosts that send their customers here for support really drive me up the wall. All of us posting here are simply trying to help and get help, remember that.
     
  6. HH-Steven

    HH-Steven Well-Known Member

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    Whilst i do agree with a lot thats been said regarding some of the replies received etc...... (common courtesy and politeness cost nothing)

    You have to remember that we all start somewhere, these might not be "young script kiddies" they could well be 45 and just starting in hosting so asking a lot of questions is something im sure you also did when starting but i do see the angle your coming from.

    None of us learn these things overnight and to quote what ive said in a previous post :

    "The learning curve of administrating servers and accounts is neverending so questions will forever be asked"

    But back to the original reason for this post, yes, i agree with haze the attitudes of those that dont receive help or a solution from a VOLUNTARY support forum is disgusting.

    If you dont like the answers you receive then use google, members of this forum take time out from there personal and business lifes to try to help people with there servers / accounts etc.......

    They dont need or deserve selfish and arrogant comments like :

    And those are only 2 out of probably 100's

    So if you thinking about making comments like this, put your keyboard down, go make a drink and just let it sink in the effort this persons gone to to try and help you in the first place.

    Treat people as you want to be treated.

    Anyway, just my 2 cents.
     
    #6 HH-Steven, Apr 10, 2005
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2005
  7. RAIS2

    RAIS2 Well-Known Member

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    I agree haze...

    I helped one guy here a few weeks ago, he did not know simple php programming, so he posted, and `Bumped` his post like 5 or 6 times, I provided him with a workable solution so he could accomplish his task. It was a perfect solution that I gave. Tested on my server. His response `That does not work` He comes back a day later saying the script works, the error was in the server configuration, in which I suggested earlier in the thread.

    As for your examples, one of them being a`hypothetical situation` I think hes lucky he got a response at all.
     
  8. chirpy

    chirpy Well-Known Member

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    I admit it used to wrangle me when encountering such attitudes. I tend to metaphorically put them on my blacklist and ignore their subsequent threads. Although I do still get riled at personal attacks:
    http://forums.cpanel.net/showthread.php?p=177069

    But then every forum has it trolls - that posted being the worst I know of here.

    I get more upset with people who simply are not willing to do some work for themselves. I've been working with cPanel for just over 18 months, but I've found all the answers to any questions I've had on the forums, on Google or by applying myself a little. If someone has searched and done the work and still is stuck I'm very happy to spend quite some time with them working through an issue - but to keep answering the same questions every day gets a little tiring.

    That said, people do obviously need to keep asking questions. It is the only way to discover new things about this product, but not at expense of that search link.
     
  9. verdon

    verdon Well-Known Member

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    I'm one of the 45 year olds trying to learn this for the first time. Fortunately, I come from a Mac background in a sea of wintel users, so I am used to fending for myself and trying to find my own answers :D

    That said, I don't know what I would have done without the knowledge passed on by people like haze, and chirpy, and squirrel to name only a few. hell, there's been times I've tried to offer chirpy money and he wouldn't even take it. I like to think that's partly because I try to do my own homework before asking questions. 99% of the time, the answer already seems to be here, just a search away.

    I understand your guys frustration though. I monitor these forums regularly and have seen some of the unbelievable rudeness dished your way. Good thing you seem to have thick skin. I also work with people who seem to think they don't have to do any research for themselves. They are quite content to expect me to spoon-feed them. I stopped answering their questions a long time ago. I don't mind sharing my knowledge with people willing to help themselves learn, in fact I enjoy it. But I am completely unwilling to share my knowledge with the others. I can't take them seriously as professionals.

    You know what it kind of reminds me of? In a previous life I was a carpenter. There were 2 kinds of carpenter. Real ones and the rest. Sometimes it seemed that anybody who owned a hammer and a saw would call themselves a carpenter. They were no real threat to me professionally, but they sure could make a lot of noise and muddy the waters for the poor consumer trying to determine who to hire. In the long run, your work speaks for itself!

    Thanks to all the experienced folks on these forums, willing to share their knowledge with those of us trying to learn. I think most of us appreciate it :)
     
  10. holographic

    holographic Member

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    Hello

    Nobody has to be here.

    If you have a problem then you can post. But no one is forcing you. You should be polite as well. It doesn't hurt anyway :)People need to realise that if someone is helping then they don't do it for money.

    They do it because they want to... yes we all realise that now but wait, why would someone *want* to?

    Because they DO get something out of it. Oh yes they do. It makes them feal imprortant and good. I used to help out on evolt.org a lot so i know exactly why people do it.

    There are a lot of helpfull people here and that is good. But these people should not take things to seriously. If someone gets in a bad mood then its (usually) with the software, not you.

    Don't jump in and make broad statements about the software being perfect. It isn't , none every are.

    If some one has a go at you just don't help them again. Hello. Isn't that obvious. Being patronising is not good either. Just because someone askes a question does not mean they are stupid.

    just my two cents
     
  11. bhd

    bhd Well-Known Member

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    You serious hosts actually do that? :eek: I guess it takes all types.
     
  12. kris1351

    kris1351 Well-Known Member

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    Yes there are LOTS of hosts that literally post the Cpanel forums as part of their support offerings. It was really bad for awhile. Typically I just post our support pages with all of our tutorials for people. Amazing how many people like the fact you have real support instead of pushing them over here on other hosts. :)

    Chirpy...I am super impressed you have only been using CPanel for 18 months. I am just right at 2 years now and I still look to your posts for a lot of my answers. I came from a Sun background with no CPs so it was quite an adjustment to get moved over.

    Most of the stuff I post here for support turns out to be bugs in Cpanel and Dan and them have helped tons over the last two years. This isn't even the same Cpanel today as it was 2 years ago, it works much better and is much more reliable. When you post for help we all want to help and just remember that if you don't get a response that probably means people don't have an answer or it is something new. No need to be a jerk about it in your posts or start bumping 20 times. If it is that important you need to submit a ticket to your Datacenter or if you are a direct Cpanel customer send a ticket to them. They are very quick with responses and you can know a lot of times if there is a new patch related to your issue.
     
  13. plake

    plake Active Member

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    I think plain and simply put :

    Code:
    This forum is a privilege, not a right, don't abuse it and people will help.
     
  14. RAIS2

    RAIS2 Well-Known Member

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    And thats a STICKY from the New User Questions forum

    People should read the stickies atleast. And for that thread also watch the small flash presentation by following that link. :rolleyes:
     
    #14 RAIS2, Apr 10, 2005
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2005
  15. dgbaker

    dgbaker Well-Known Member
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    This is one of those issues that crops up every so often. I remember a year or so ago a similar thread to this.

    For the most part this forum is unmoderated, with the exception of the threads that I have gotten around to see. Although I do not see every thread, and I'm not a perfect moderator, if you come across a thread that needs to be "taken care of" especially for verbal abuse or such feel free to PM me with the link and what went on.

    There are more than a few that I have sent warning PM's to about the way they carry on and the fact I can and will recommend they be banned if they continue.

    Generally if someone is snarky once, it can slide with the "their po'd at the software not me" thought. BUT, in the above linked examples these went beyond that in the one chirpy listed became downright personal, which won't be tolerated.

    I have had a few PM's from some who were miffed for the way I moderate some of the posts, especially the ones I tell to use the search feature.

    I must though say the worst offenders of bashing and such are not just from new members, some are from members that have been around a while all ready.

    Feel free to answer a post by pointing to the search feature or point them to the stickies, and again PM me if any issues need to be looked at and I'll do what I can.
     
  16. haze

    haze Well-Known Member

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    Heh, I can almost see ya's pointing those fingers this way. And heck, i'll admit i've gone overboard with some post(s) / poster(s) at time. Most memorable would probably be chadi ( whom also sent me quite an interesting very non christian like email ) and the so called "security expert" abefroman.. ah yes. At the time, I felt my possition was indeed justified. And i'll admit i still do.

    There are others of course. Then again, I've had my own personal issues to deal with the past year or so. I've probably brought a little of the pent up frustration and whatnot into the threads, which may have been uncalled for. I'd like to think i'm beyond that at this point, and I do my best to lend a hand when and where needed.

    Nobody is perfect, not I, not me and definitly not myself!
     
  17. K_aneda

    K_aneda Well-Known Member

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    Maybe update the sticky thread with a short stint on proper edict on cPanel Forums, force users to read this when they signup, and when moderating threads, /quote/ the edict with a link so they better understand it?

    (Or is that a bit too much...)
     
  18. dwykofka

    dwykofka Well-Known Member

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    Wait a second here..

    I understand what you guys are saying but the fact is that when people go to www.cpanel.net and click on support they have several options the 1st one being "Support Forums".

    If cpanel doesn't want to provide support in this manner they should re-label the forums.

    If they do, This is all just normal customer service issues. Not everyone is going to be grateful not everyone is going to take the time to thank people for their responses.

    It seems like you guys want to treat this like a private forum. I run a private forum and if anyone post with the temperment of some of the posts we are discussing I would ban them from my forums. But that is my private forum, It is not a forum labeled "support forum" provided by a paid software vendor.

    I dont quite know how to explain it but when you use forum software as a support venue it's not really a community forum anymore. It's a support system.

    Just like a ticket based support system post's come in all flavors..

    I would bet that most people who post in here believe that the responses are coming directly from cpanel, not from other users.
     
  19. chirpy

    chirpy Well-Known Member

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    That is a fair point, they do indeed have these forums mis-named as they clearly are not an official support channel (which is obvious if one were to watch the forums for a short length of time) and should be made clearer to people coming here if it isn't in the forum signup process at least.
     
  20. Joshfrom

    Joshfrom Well-Known Member

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    Ask and ye shall receive :)

    I re-labeled this section to "General" instead of "Support" and updated our webpage to say "cPanel Forums - Talk with other cPanel users" instead of "Support Forums" If I overlooked anything, let me know.

    If you ever see any threads that are inappropriate, by all means report them. We are notified whenever you report a thread and we will take whatever action is needed.
     
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