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RE: Announcement: Purpose of these forums

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by dgbaker, Apr 14, 2004.

  1. dgbaker

    dgbaker Well-Known Member
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    So essentially what you're (cPanel) is saying is that you could care less about your PAYING customers and what they want. The fact that you do not care who comes on this forum (wannabe hackers), says to me that you are willing to put the security of our servers at risk regardless. Not a very professional attitude in my opinion.

    As a PAYING (read: bread and butter) customer, I personally would like cPanel to start listening to the needs and wants of this forum.

    Thanks,
     
  2. casey

    casey Well-Known Member

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    And allow me to suggest that the reason you (cpaneljosh) are not the slightest bit frustrated about providing end-user hosting support on these forums is that you hardly ever post. Just look at the number of your posts and the number of dgbaker's an my posts. Obviously we put a lot more energy into these forums than you do. Add squirrel and thaphantom to this list, and you have most of the top ten posters that have expressed frustration. Of course, you probably deleted the thread before actually looking to see who was posting.
     
  3. PWSowner

    PWSowner Well-Known Member

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    I noticed that the poll disappeared also.

    I've been here just over 2 years and started with questions of my own, like most newcomers, then returned the favor by trying to answer questions whenever possible. In the 2 years, it has pretty much always been cpanel license owners discussing various technical aspects and problems and questions. Some end users have also come here to ask about the more complicated things, and that has never been a problem for me. It's providing basic end user support that DOES NOT fit here.

    If you have been watching the recent threads about this, you should have noticed that half of the top 10 posters here have been complaining. That must mean something.

    None of us believe in providing "basic support" of end users. That is supposed to be done by the hosting company. When we start getting newcomers asking the simplest of questions, that most hosting companies tell their clients in their initial account email, someone is abusing this forum and we know who that is. Most of the basic questions were all being asked by customers of the same company.

    IF YOU WANT TO ALLOW END USERS TO COME HERE FOR BASIC QUESTIONS INSTEAD OF ASKING THEIR PROVIDER, I SUGGEST AT LEAST ADDING A NEW FORUM FOR THAT PURPOSE.



    Anyone wanna make a bet on how long this thread will be up?
     
  4. PWSowner

    PWSowner Well-Known Member

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    By the way DG, someone is getting very close to your post count. Did you notice?
     
  5. johnnylu

    johnnylu Member

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    Calm down, men!

    Every one have their own thinking, we can't force they do like we think. I agree that this forum is not for end-users but have you ever thought: just imagine you were a newbie end-user and your host can't support you so how will solve the problem without help? In my opinion, we should help them and then advise them to change their host. I think that would be a good way for this situation. :)
     
  6. PWSowner

    PWSowner Well-Known Member

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    I was helping with a few of the newbie questions because I have nothing against helping others, but the problem is, as long as we do help them, they have no reason to switch hosting companies. They go with the one they are at because of the price and any company that provides decent support can't compete with that price.

    People new to cpanel need some help with it. For that reason it doesn't make sense to go with a hosting provider who doesn't offer support.

    When people sign up for hosting with us, they are given the details about their account and some basic instructions. Some of the questions that have been asked are ones we send with our customers new account email. Very simple questions that even a cheap hosting company should answer themselves.

    I will probably continue to answer some of the questions asked because it's not their fault they have to come here, but it would be nice if the company in question would at least remove the link to these forums from their site, or at least help their customers with the basic account setup and questions.

    I still think the best thing to do is add a new forum, "end user Q's & A's", or something like that.
     
  7. chirpy

    chirpy Well-Known Member

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    I don't understand why cPanel don't get it. Since they don't actively post in the forums themselves much, I guess they cannot be bothered to help those of us that do try and help others.

    The frustration and anger at being led down a support path only to find the person asking doesn't have administration access to the server is enough to make me think twice about helping.

    I've seen many forums deteriorate into repeated end-use questions where it becomes impossible to find actual technical help, rendering almost useless to the actual target audience.

    Since cPanel aren't interested in helping their own community, maybe those of us that do try to help should simply ask first, "Do you administer your server?", if the answer is "No", then refer them to the cPanel support form:

    http://support.cpanel.net/index.cgi?support=1

    Or, back to their own hosting provider, depending on how fed up you are :rolleyes:
     
  8. Juanra

    Juanra Well-Known Member

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    Maybe we should do some self-criticism... The fact that it's mostly only top posters who are complaining about this (I include myself) is perhaps significative. *If* the forum turns into what we think it will, then so be it, we do not have the right to fixate things as they are just because we like them. It will be a real shame for us to lose such a useful forum but we're just a bunch among thousands of members.

    Circumstances change, a new "breed of top posters" will come to "replace" us :p

    Anyway we should first wait and see how things go.
     
  9. Marty

    Marty Well-Known Member

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    I would disagree with that. As paying customers, we should first voice our opinions as to what we want from our supplier to see if they will listen. If they do not, then we should move on.
     
  10. PWSowner

    PWSowner Well-Known Member

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    Things do change, and maybe it's time for these forums to be used by end users, but like I said before, just create a new forum for end users and it won't be such a big deal anymore.

    Like chirpy said, one of the biggest problems is, end users are asking questions that they can't do anything about so we take time to explain things to them only to find out they can't do what we said. There is a big difference in what kind of support can be provided to others when you compare server owners to end users. Just take 2 minutes to put up a new end users forum and that will seperate the issues and make things better for everyone.

    True, we shouldn't be needing to help end users with things that their provider should deal with, but by making a seperate forum, we have the choice whether or not to help, and even more important, it keeps things organized so we don't have to search through a pile of unrelated stuff to find things we need.
     
  11. s3kk3y

    s3kk3y Well-Known Member

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    While that is very generous of you, I do not think that will help the situation. The more people help the end users, the more they will depend on these forums instead of their hosts'.
     
  12. SarcNBit

    SarcNBit Well-Known Member

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    I have never administered a vB forum, but I am sure that there is some way to restrict access to certain forums based upon group membership. I know for a fact that there are forums within this very board that only designated cpanel personnel have access to.

    What cPanel should do is place all validated admins in a group and restrict access to all forums except a cpanel end-user forum and (newly created) whm reseller forum to anyone not in the validated group.

    Let's be fair. There is no reason why resellers and end-users should be prevented from seeking support on their own (they should not be linked here as their primary source of support of course).

    How to handle the validation can be debated, but it is obvious that cPanel is in the best position to validate access and the forums should be hosted here.
     
  13. PWSowner

    PWSowner Well-Known Member

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    That's true.

    And it will cause more people to start their own "cheap" hosting company because of "this" source of support.

    Good point.
     
  14. Website Rob

    Website Rob Well-Known Member

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    I do believe the problem (with the Forum) is due to lack of staff at DarkOrb. One would think they have the resources to hire people for properly managing such a busy Forum as this one.

    Unless and until more attention is paid to this Forum, by DarkOrb staff, problems will continue to mount. If DarkOrb wants the Forum Members to police/guide/mange other Forum Members, then they should not complain (or delete posts) that do exactly that.

    Wasn't aware of any Poll being deleted, but I do remember a thread some of us were involved in which focused on Moderators for this Forum. That thread took about a day to get deleted. Wonder how long it will be before this thread is deleted as well.?
     
  15. dgbaker

    dgbaker Well-Known Member
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    Let's see....

    WHT has moderators.
    EV1 has moderators.
    Burst has moderators.
    Hell! Even cpanelhosts has 5 moderators if required.

    I see a pattern, most forums have moderators.

    As for when this thread gets deleted or myself gets banned (which ever comes first) I think we should open a betting pool for it. :D
     
  16. PWSowner

    PWSowner Well-Known Member

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    Put me in for 9am tomorrow. :D
     
  17. casey

    casey Well-Known Member

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    If they would ban their only tomcat guru then something is seriously wrong with not only the forums but the company itself.;)
     
  18. johnnylu

    johnnylu Member

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    I best 10 for 1 this thread will be deleted first. :cool:
     
  19. thedavid

    thedavid Well-Known Member

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    I guess I didn't know it was that big of a problem... quite honestly.

    I work on a lot of things throughout the day though, and as such I don't come here as often as I do other forums. All that said...

    I would help other hosts in similar situations to me, as without that there wouldn't be really any tips/pointers that they might be able to give.

    But to support another hosts clients? Oh heck no. My opinion on it is, if you want support from me, buy an account from me. Then you'll get support - lots of it.

    What kind of host says to their clients 'go here and ask these other hosts for the answer, because we don't know' anyway? Crazy. Or maybe I'm mistaken...
     
  20. PWSowner

    PWSowner Well-Known Member

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    That's exactly what's been going in, and it seemed to have started, or suddenly got more popular, a few weeks ago.

    We suddenly started getting several questions a few weeks ago that don't belong here. Some questions that only the hosting provider knows the answer to, and some questions that normally the hosting provider will answer. One question in particular sounded like the end user thought this board belonged to that hosting company.

    The hosting company, it turns out, was, (and still is), telling their clients on the support page, to go here for support.

    That's what this has been all about. A hosting company that is sending their clients here for support. Most of us don't mind helping out end users now and then, but we don't intend to be another hosting companies "babysitter".

    We've even had a couple of their clients say that they noticed how poor the support is and are thinking of going elsewhere. Others though, figure, as long as they are getting their answers here anyway, they may as well stay with them. By us providing the support, they can sell hosting for less than we can afford to sell for.
     
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