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Tomcat RHE

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by kris1351, Feb 24, 2004.

  1. kris1351

    kris1351 Well-Known Member

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    Anyone running Tomcat on RHE with Cpanel? We had it running great on 7.3/9.0, but have not started testing on RHE. Any info would be great.
     
  2. kris1351

    kris1351 Well-Known Member

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    Anyone have any guides for just making it so plain jsp pages can be displayed? We need minimal Java functions on our servers.
     
  3. lup

    lup Member

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    I need it

    I'am also needing help on this.
     
  4. nghialy

    nghialy Member

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    Hello!
    I also need it. Anyone know how to install and configure. My server run redhatlinux 9 and cpanel.
     
  5. inspedium

    inspedium Member

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    Come on guys.. someone must have some solution for this.
     
  6. dgbaker

    dgbaker Well-Known Member
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    Nope not that I am aware, search around this forum and ours and you'll find that no-one has it fully working on RHE or Fedora.
     
  7. jsteel

    jsteel Well-Known Member

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    Tomcat runs just fine under RHE. Simply download the latest binaries from the Jakarta site and follow thier install instructions (don't use the cPanel installer).

    If you can't handle following the Jakarta documentation for installing it, you really shouldn't be trying to offer Tomcat to your customers. Providing Tomcat functionality is vastly different from PHP, Perl, ASP, etc., and if you can't figure out how to install it, what are you going to do when it comes time to troubleshoot problems (and you will have them due to bad code from somebody or misconfigurations on your part); you'll just end up pissing off a lot of customers and ultimately losing them because you misled them into thinking you know how to operate Tomcat and understand how Java fucntions in a server environment. This is probably why cPanel hasn't released any updated version of their installer.

    We offer Tomcat (on 7.3, 8.0, 9.0 and RHE3), but we also have Sun Java-certified Architects and Developers that also have years of Tomcat experience. If we didn't have them, we wouldn't be offering Tomcat. They are quite busy all of the time tweaking, monitoring, configuring custom settings for customers, etc. Managing a Tomcat server is a 24/7 job if you are doing it right.

    I'm not trying to slam anybody here, I just want those of you unaware to realize that using Tomcat isn't just a matter of pointing and clicking and you are done. The issues you'll encounter could very well drive you to close up shop if you are a novice. I'd recommend you get a test server, get a good Tomcat book (thge Wrox book is pretty good for begineer to intermediate users), and play and experiment for about 3-6 months to gain a better understanding first. You'll also want to learn all you can about Java and about how to configure JVMs.
     
    #7 jsteel, Apr 1, 2004
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2004
  8. dgbaker

    dgbaker Well-Known Member
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    I know it works without integrating into cpanel (ie: running it on a seperate port) But I myself have not been able to get the connectors working for apache.

    Care to share a howto?
     
  9. jsteel

    jsteel Well-Known Member

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    Just compile it according to the docs. They're actually quite clear.
     
  10. [herb]man

    [herb]man Member

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    I have used many different HOWTOs and am ending up in the same place with the connectors not working/crashing apache.

    Tomcat is running fine standalone, but I need it in apache. I have tried with mod_jk2 and mod_jk, both cause problems. If anyone has some docs to suggest, that have worked for them (under RHE3) that would be great...
     
  11. kris1351

    kris1351 Well-Known Member

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    Don't think it has anything to do with being "certified". DG has offered more help to this community on Tomcat than anyone else. Simply following the install docs does not help you setup connectors, if it did ours would have been setup last month. I am far from a novice, but there are some definate issues with RHE.
     
  12. getnetworks

    getnetworks Member

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    That's interesting then as even our junior engineers (with no Tomcat experience) have taken the Jakarta docs and compiled the connectors as outlined in the docs without a hitch. If you follow them step-by-step and don't just assume you know what you are doing and skip over things, you shouldn't have any issue (figuratively 'you'; we're not pointing fingers directly at you).

    And yes, being certified does lend itself to structured knowledge rather than haphazard ability. When you get a OutOfMemory error, how do you troubleshoot it? Logs won't help you. You'll need to profile the JVM to find the culprit. What about headless servers? Most tools require a GUI. What tool will you use and how do you read it's output, especially in a remote environment? And let us not forget that profiling can render you box unusable while it is occuring and can take a bit of time. How will you handle this to ensure you have minimal impact on your customers' sites? How do you proactively monitor and tweak the servers to ensure you don't get common exceptions/errors? Are you aware of the major security vulnerabilities of using the cPanel Tomcat installer (should be pretty easy figure out even for an intermediate admin)? How about the fact that if you use the cPanel bundle you take down the JVM (impacting all customers) everytime you add a new customer with Tomcat support (a real quick way to piss off customers).

    It just baffles us how many 'providers' are out there that really know very little about administering a server (just look at 80% of the posts in this forum), let alone running Tomcat commercially (if I only had a nickel for everyone that comments about how they can't get the cPanel Tomcat installer working, let alone installing something from Jakarta directly). If you can't install it, you shouldn't be running it (installing it is the easy part).

    Far too many people treat WHM/cPanel as an end-all solution to managing a server; it may make some tasks easier, it also adds a lot of layers of additional required knowledge to understand exactly what the hell it's doing. If you don't have the knowledge of how to administer a server properly without the use of a cPanel, what makes you think you can manage one with those extra layers of potential pitfalls (once again figuratively, we're not saying you specifically)?

    I'll take a Sun-certified Java Architect over anyone without the certification any day. That certification isn't easy and unlike other industry certifications, it really requires you to think out of the box, which in ours eyes is what is really neeeded in the hosting world as nothing is ever as it first appears due to the tremendous number of variables.
     
  13. getnetworks

    getnetworks Member

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    FYI, following the Jakarta docs to a 'T' takes us a whopping 20 minutes to have Tomcat up and running, and integrated with Apache using the connectors. This is on any of the flavors of RH, including Enterprise).

    And once you get one done through compilation, it only takes about 10-15 minutes to deploy compiled binaries rather than recompiling on each server (assuming your servers are exact replicas).
     
  14. kris1351

    kris1351 Well-Known Member

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    You can take the shots if you like, I worked for Sun for 2 years and have been a Sun certified engineer since 1996. I have supported the Java architects and most don't know their way around a box. Anyone can read/study and take a test. I think people are more complaining about the fact that without integration there is more handwork involved. I personally don't care to offer Tomcat on servers and limit those that just have to have it to one server. It is what it is there for and there are truly only a handful of people that use it.
     
  15. dgbaker

    dgbaker Well-Known Member
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    Well stated Kris, I as well am no sloutch (sp?) when it comes to java, certified BEA WebLogic. My main stay of business is supporting WebLogic and CMS for major corps.

    Most of the issues we have ran into have been with the NOC setup's of the servers, two datacenters both supplying broken JDK installs and no working java environment at all.

    As for any that have to tweak constantly?? Hire better admins, Tomcat should not have to played with very often at all. ONLY when adding something new you may need to tune it. Sounds more like techs trying to do "make work" to justify their existence.

    Anyway I am not going to get into a battle of wits on this. For those that have it working, good for you, glad your contributing to the community with knowledge (sarc).

    As for the others we are beta testing a new installer for RHE and Fedora we put together, major pre-req is that you must be running j2sdk 1.4.2 and have glibc updated to 2.3 as well. Several NOC's are not installing to this level so you need to upgrade it yourself or hire someone to do it for you.

    Run java -version to see what version you're on. If you have glibc symbol error that means you need updating as well.
     
  16. kris1351

    kris1351 Well-Known Member

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    We have a RHE server running it now on a very limited basis while we monitor it. The latest compile of j2k helped a lot in getitng it up to date. The glib was way out of date on a new install also, hopefully DCs start restoring boxes with newer images for those less likely to get in there and play around.

    I still look forward to seeing your installer DG, the ability to add servlets via WHM are priceless. Cpanel maintains too much control of httpd.conf to be making lots of customizations to users directives.
     
  17. jsteel

    jsteel Well-Known Member

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    DG: We have top-tier admins (no reason for you to take a cheap shots), and constant tweaking/monitoring in a shared environment is required. When you have 50-150 customers on a box all constantly changing their java applications (and many of them not really understanding Java much at all), you are going to see lots of odd stuff going on. I'd agree with you if the frequency of change was next to nil (and thus the possibility of problems creeping up being the same), but when classes, jars and JSPs are changing about once every 20-30 minutes, it's a whole different ballgame. Maybe you simply don't have the same type or number of customers we do running Java apps.

    Kris: I'd agree with you on the Developer cert, but not at all on the Architect cert. Not sure which Arch test you seem to be thinking of, but to sufficiently train for the Arch test, you need to have been writing lots of code to understand the manipulative nature of the questions. Sun's Arch test does an excellent job at presenting some of the most confusing questions around, and memorization isn't going to help you much; you need to really understand the questions (unlike with 98% of Microsoft's exams - now those I would agree are a complete joke, as are a number of Cisco's base exams). And out of curiosity, are you a Sun-certified Engineer or a Sun Java-certified Architect?
     
  18. kris1351

    kris1351 Well-Known Member

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    Engineer, I hate coding. Have never been able to force myself to sit and write it. I have supported Java architects from companies such as Pagenet and Sun though. Some of the code rollouts I have seen you have no idea. Also, was on some of the first teams rolling out the J2EE servers when Sun was releasing them.

    Think you are confusing real developers with those that simply need the ability to run small Java applets. The majority of the web will never build a real app that will do something like we had with 2way paging and Blackberries at Pagenet, but they will make a cute hello world app. Most of the customers we have use nothing more than a menu system with theirs. Seems overkill to me when they could juse JS instead, but it is their perogative. That's why so many want the RHE/Tomcat/Cpanel integration, base functions are needed but not what you are dealing with. If we were going to put forth something more than basic applictions then there would be need for more, but that simply isn't the case. In the last 4 years I have run WWM we have maybe 30 customers that require Java servlets. A very small percentage of the overall.
     
  19. woolly

    woolly Active Member

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    I got it to work perfectly in RHE. However, whenever I want to setup a new domain or hostname in cPanel that i want to use JSP for, i have to go into server.xml and add the entries manually myself which is a pain.
     
  20. dgbaker

    dgbaker Well-Known Member
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    jsteel - I do appologize for the shot, but your original post was pretty much taking shots at us as well.

    Anyway - your right, most of the people using our java environment are not using it anywhere near it's potential and for the most part are using basic jsp pages with some servlets.

    As for the install issues, once getting the java environment actually working, yes the installs and connectors are very painless. It would help emmensly if noc's actually installed correctly from the beginning. That though is only part of the job though, for example even cPanel's install scripts went further into integration. Our installer for example does the chkservd setup for monitoring etc... Not saying this rocket science but does help others out.
     
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