The Community Forums

Interact with an entire community of cPanel & WHM users!
  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Unrouted Mail

Discussion in 'E-mail Discussions' started by 64bitguy, Mar 5, 2004.

  1. 64bitguy

    64bitguy Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2004
    Messages:
    14
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    HELP! "Unrouted Mail" Does Not Work

    Hi

    Situation:

    Domain has 3 email addresses:
    1) John (Main Account)
    2) webmaster@domain.com
    3) support@domain.com

    Problem:
    How to BOUNCE all mail that is NOT addressed to one of these three users, while still having the "Main Account" be capable of receiving email.

    Example: When changing the "default address" section to indicate "all unrouted mail will be sent to" :fail: no such address here, the default account "John" recieves NO email, even mail addressed specifically to "John@domain.com".

    We need John to still get mail, only we want all mail not addressed to one of these 3 accounts bounced back to the sender!

    What we are having a hard time with is the term "UNROUTED". By definition, this would mean ANY email that is not addressed to a VALID destination. In this example, all 3 addresses should be valid domain addresses; however, apparently, cPanel sees the "MAIN ACCOUNT" as not being a valid email address.

    WHY?.. Please explain!

    If this is simply a bug, please explain that as well.

    If not, please provide a workaround.

    Configuration:
    O/S: Red Hat Linux 9
    Kernel: 2.4.20-30.9bigmem
    cPanel Build: 9.0.0-RELEASE 44
    Apache: 1.3.29 (Unix)
    cPanel Pro: 0.9.9.2 (RC8)

    Thanks
     
    #1 64bitguy, Mar 5, 2004
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2004
  2. hblair

    hblair Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2001
    Messages:
    25
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    I'd like to hear this answer too.
     
  3. 64bitguy

    64bitguy Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2004
    Messages:
    14
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Reply "Create an account John@domain.com" Not Valid, nor Working Solution

    Unfortunately, creating an account "John@domain.com" does NOT solve the problem. We had previously thought of and attempted this as well.

    Situation:
    The system does NOT recognize, nor can it distinguish how to discern any differences between the MAIN ACCOUNT “John” (a valid destination equaling john@domain.com) and a new created email account “John@domain.com” should they both exist in the same domain.

    Unfortunately, mail addressed to john@domain.com still fails to be delivered to either account when the above described “UNROUTED” mail scenario is in place. In fact, it EITHER simply continues to reject all messages sent to “John@domain.com” in the exact same manner it did previously OR the mail just vanishes, not reaching either “John” destination.

    In theory, the two accounts (being equally john@domain.com) is not logical for the programming and thus creates an internal conflict in the delivery system.

    As both accounts utilize the same name (which should be but is not rejected by the account creation system as being impossible) a “delivery logic” problem/conflict is created by cPanel; unfortunately resulting in neither account receiving email directed to “John@domain.com” when the above mentioned ":fail:" mechanism is in place for bouncing “UNROUTED” mail.

    In fact, by definition, a new conflict in the delivery and handling code exists immediately upon creating a “john@domain.com” within a domain that has “John” already defined as the “MAIN ACCOUNT”.

    Again we ask, how the (MAIN ACCOUNT) “john” can be both a valid email address AND invalid (as not being recognized by the unrouted command) at the same time?

    This STILL seems as a logic bug in defining the term, “UNROUTED”.

    The solution SEEMS to be correctable by including the defined “MAIN ACCOUNT” as a valid destination in the logic programming of the term “UNROUTED”.

    In fact the MAIN ACCOUNT is already defined as a valid destination when the UNROUTED mail solution is reversed, utilizing the MAIN ACCOUNT as a “catch-all”.

    Thus, we must continue to ask the question, how “UNROUTED” can be a valid statement used to define mail NOT delivered to an account that DOES IN FACT EXIST.

    Please try again.
     
    #3 64bitguy, Mar 5, 2004
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2004
  4. Myacen

    Myacen Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2002
    Messages:
    222
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    /scripts/fixcommonproblems
     
  5. 64bitguy

    64bitguy Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2004
    Messages:
    14
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Is it the position of Cpanel that this is a bug?

    Hi

    Well, we thought of that too.

    Unfortunately however; once again, running /scripts/fixcommonproblems does not appear to be a solution.

    We are still asking the same questions, but nobody seems to want to answer them.

    AGAIN
    What we are having a hard time with is the term "UNROUTED". By definition, this would mean ANY email that is not addressed to a VALID destination. In this example, all 3 addresses should be valid domain addresses; however, apparently, cPanel sees the "MAIN ACCOUNT" as not being a valid email address.

    WHY?.. Please explain!

    By supplying the response, scripts/fixcommonproblems are you saying that this is a bug in how cPanel is operating and/or handling the definition of "UNROUTED" in that (by design) cPanel is supposed to recognize the "MAIN ACCOUNT" John as a valid destination? PLEASE ELABORATE IN DETAIL!!!!

    Is this simply a bug in:
    a) How cPanel is handling the term "UNROUTED"?
    b) How the term "UNROUTED" is actually being defined and managed by cPanel?
    c) How the rest of the server sees the MAIN ACCOUNT, "John"?
    again.... please explain and elaborate on your answer.

    If not, please provide a workaround.

    An answer that explains what is actually going on by design and/or due to design failure is required rather than a one line response that neither resolves the issue nor provides any kind of explanation.

    Thanks!
     
  6. 64bitguy

    64bitguy Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2004
    Messages:
    14
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Additional Note

    One additional issue:

    Using the example noted in the original message, it is also VERY important to note the following:

    The cPanel itself reports:

    Subdomains 0 / unlimited
    Parked Domains 0 / 0
    Addon Domains 0 / 0
    MySQL Databases 1 / unlimited
    Disk usage 44.58 Megabytes
    SQL Disk usage 4.72 Megabytes
    Disk space available 155.42 Megabytes
    Bandwidth usage (current month) 265.91 Megabytes
    Email Accounts 2 / unlimited
    Email Forwarders 1
    Autoresponders 0
    Mailing Lists 0 / unlimited
    Email filters 0
    Ftp Accounts 0 / unlimited

    NOTE THE "Email Accounts 2" !!!

    So what they are saying here is that they don't consider the MAIN ACCOUNT to be an email account?

    Again, Please clarify!!! This issue needs to be resolved ASAP so that mail that is UNROUTED (not sent to one of the 3 accounts mentioned) is bounced! The domain is being inundated with SPAM!
     
  7. 64bitguy

    64bitguy Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2004
    Messages:
    14
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    BUMP!

    BUMP!
     
  8. SarcNBit

    SarcNBit Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2003
    Messages:
    1,010
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Create an account for john@domain

    Create a forwarder for badmail@domain pointing to :fail:

    Set badmail@domain as the default account
     
  9. 64bitguy

    64bitguy Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2004
    Messages:
    14
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Sheesh.

    Well, what I end up with is ANYTHING BUT elegant, but it appears to work.

    1) Main account John remains intact.
    2) Create new email account: John@domain.com
    3) Create new email account: badmail@domain.com
    4) Set Default Address: badmail@domain.com
    5) Set mail forwarder: badmail@domain.com = :fail: No such address here

    The only other caveat is that the person recieving mail as John@domain.com must now go into outlook and configure ANOTHER SEPERATE email account using the exact same properties as his first john "MAIN ACCOUNT" settings.

    For some reason, having just one "John" account in Outlook will result in John getting NO messages at all.

    (No, please don't ask me why, we've tested it on 3 machines in 4 domains and they all came out the same way)

    The downside is that it is impossible to forward mail from john@domain.com to john (MAIN ACCOUNT) or vice versa to prevent having to create this duplicate (and very strange) Outlook setup.

    The other downside is that if the account information for john@domain.com does not EXACTLY match the main account "john", email addressed to john@domain.com will simply evaporate in the server. We haven't been able to figure out where it is going, but it is NOT getting delivered anywhere that we can see. It is also not getting rejected.

    This is OBVIOUSLY a bug that should be addressed in the next patch! To have this be the default way of bouncing UNROUTED mail is just plain rediculous!

    Thanks for the workaround! It is an extremely strange and long-drawnout way of going around the problem, but it does work! Cudos to you... Someone give this man a cigar!
     
  10. 64bitguy

    64bitguy Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2004
    Messages:
    14
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    FAILED AGAIN

    Okay

    Sorry about that...

    After closer inspection, once implementing this solution we found that other accounts stopped working.

    In this case, specfically the account"webmaster@domain.com" failed on 3 out of the 4 servers it was on. Additionally on the other test server the other account failed.

    For some reason, after making this change, the webmaster@domain.com can't login to pick up email.

    It appears that something is going on inside the mail server setup now that is causing account conflicts.

    We still believe that the main problem is that cPanel is not recognizing the mail account as a valid mail destination, which in fact, it is.

    Please continue to investigate a workable solution as the one above is not.

    It must also be noted that while the accounts john worked for about 10 minutes, after that Outlook started reporting continuous errors accessing the accounts. Now it fails completely to communicate to the servers via ANY of the accounts. Obviously, the above suggestion is not at all usable.

    Thanks
     
    #10 64bitguy, Mar 8, 2004
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2004
  11. tAzMaNiAc

    tAzMaNiAc Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2003
    Messages:
    559
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    Sachse, TX
    Being a dork about this won't help.

    Try cPanel for a better solution. This is usually a forum for the users, and cPanel drops in from time to time. If you want more specific support, ask cPanel themselves instead of posting things in underline and bold and expecting an answer NOW!!!!

    Thank you! Sheesh.
     
  12. 64bitguy

    64bitguy Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2004
    Messages:
    14
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Hey.. Thanks for the help!

    Dork? Nice picture!

    Um.. I wasn't expecting help today.. I was hoping to get it a few days ago! I'd post in all caps if I actually thought that it might help! The underlines are to underline serious points.

    But again, thanks for your help!
     
    #12 64bitguy, Mar 8, 2004
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2004
  13. PbG

    PbG Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2003
    Messages:
    241
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    I think it is a bug. You should put in a tt as there are other threads on here regarding this same problem. I have one reseller who has fail selected for default and the server rejects any mail sent to an unknown user at his domain. However if I set this up on one of our test domains we get the same thing you get.

    Perhaps changing the ownership of the account to the user is the key here or try giving the account reseller privledges. These are the only two apparent differences between the account it works on and the one it did not work on. Especially since both accounts reside on the same server. Either way it certainly is not working the way it should.
     
  14. 64bitguy

    64bitguy Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2004
    Messages:
    14
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Interesting reply. I'll have another look at the settings.

    Have you had any luck in resolving it when it happens to you? Also.. What we found really weird is how the last suggestion seemed to work for about a half hour, then the whole server went nuts.

    Utilization went way up, (like to 100%) and then all of the mailboxes just died. Did you have this problem when trying to implement any of the above changes?

    It is fairly frustrating to be in this sutuation when you are trying to deliver promised Anti-SPAM countermeasures. I can't speak for the rest of the reseller community, but when you can't do something simple like letting a customer reject unrouted mail, you feel pretty stupid. It makes me want to go back to Plesk in the worst way.

    I'm especially bothered by the total lack of useful (useful being the key word) documentation on the product. There are lots of vague clues about features, but nothing solid regarding command structure, function or coding.

    I've looked into this particular example in detail and again, could find nothing in the documentation that discusses it beyond what a user would see when enabling it. The same goes for "Main Account" definitions, which is where I think the flaw is.

    Anyway.. Thanks for your feedback.. I'll go talk to the other techs about you ideas and play with some of the development servers to see what happens!
     
  15. SarcNBit

    SarcNBit Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2003
    Messages:
    1,010
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    38
    64bitguy I sympathize with you on this (and I am sure that a lot of other members do as well). I think if you read through these forums you will find 1000 posts expressing the same frustration. The level of "official" support offered through these forums leaves something to be desired. With that being said however I am still glad that cPanel hosts a forum where cPanel users can get in touch with one another to discuss problems and solutions. Along those same lines I find Web Hosting Talk and ev1servers forums to be good resources as well.

    My original answer to your question was short and non-descript because this topic has been discussed in at least a dozen threads in this forum. Yes it does seem like a round about way to accomplish what you are trying to accomplish and yes it does seem akin to a "work around", but that is how it is done. It works. I have had to do it on several accounts spanning more than one server.

    You may have underlying issues stopping it from working for you.

    One thing I noticed in your reply that is different than what I instructed you to do is that you actually created a pop account for badmail. In the accounts where I am forwarding "unrouted" mail to :fail: I do not create a pop account for badmail. I simply create a forward and then list badmail as the default.

    [EDIT]One other thing. I do not :fail: bad mail. I :blackhole: it ;) [/EDIT]
     
    #15 SarcNBit, Mar 8, 2004
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2004
  16. 64bitguy

    64bitguy Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2004
    Messages:
    14
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Interesting

    Interesting reply..

    We hadn't tried blackholing, only because we really want messages to be bounced to discourage SPAMMERS from sending them in the first place. Also, it helps to ensure that they pull your domain from their lists and thus, you may find yourself being propagated from SPAMMER to SPAMMER less.

    In reference to the configuration.. Wow.. My bad.

    We did actually create the mailbox badmail@domain.com

    We didn't know that you could setup a forwarder to an internal mailbox that doesn't actually exist. To be honest, I find that fairly weak programming if you CAN actually program an address that doesn't exist, but I'll save that argument for another time.

    On the other hand, we are having a problem programming the address john@domain.com.

    It seems (as we originally discussed) that the "Main Account" is in fact valid as an email account; however, if you attempt to create an email account with the same name (ie.. john@domain.com) you automatically create an internal conflict and prohibit the system's ability to adequately manage delivery to the destination. Furthermore, this conflict causes a spike in system utilization ending in a fault.

    To complicate matters, any attempts at bouncing mail have also created substantial problems. As you suggested, the only alternative may be to blackhole it. Again, our problem with this methodology I previously mentioned; however my complaint would be that if this is the only solution, then the product is failing to function as advertised.

    I appreciate you providing the workaround (actually very much as it was at least something new to try!). While not functional for us probably because:
    1) .. Yeah, we configured it differently than instructed
    2) Our overall problem of not being able to duplicate the name of the "Main Account" in the form of a mail address name

    But I look at it like at least it gave us something to do besides listen to customers bitch about not resolving them the problem yet. :)

    Anyway, we're going to play around with some other variations in our lab. Feel free to drop other ideas, the techs love trying to fix things.

    Thanks again!
     
  17. 64bitguy

    64bitguy Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2004
    Messages:
    14
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    cPanel Choices

    We opened a ticket, however instead of reading the post in this thread (although sent to it 3 times) cPanel tech support instead thought that it was wiser to insult us.

    After failing to address how exactly to correct the problem or even admit that there is a bug or situation we chose to find a solution on our own.

    We implemented Plesk on half of our servers which immediately solved ALL of our problems. http://www.sw-soft.com/en/products/plesk/

    The other half of our servers are now running Ensim, which again.. solved all of our problems. http://www.ensim.com/products/pro/index.html

    What's more, both companies offer far superior technical support. (Well, at least they have telephones and will actually be polite when addressing you!)

    Good luck to the rest of you! You'll need it!
     
  18. jeffbkane

    jeffbkane Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2003
    Messages:
    11
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    cPanel Access Level:
    Reseller Owner
    It surprises me that through all that conversation, no one considered checking whether the alias, domainalias or exim files were corrupt or misconfigured. While the fixcommonproblems script may address some of these, I've found that if I created an account and spelled the domain name wrong, then deleted the account and recreated it with the right domain but sill the same USER name, that the wrong spelled domain sometimes remains in some of those (or other) files.

    I generally check my conf files manually, just to see what's going on.

    Any thoughts on this?
     
Loading...

Share This Page