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Upgrade MySQL 5.7 to MariaDB Recommended?

Discussion in 'Database Discussion' started by Hayk D, Jan 26, 2019.

  1. Hayk D

    Hayk D Registered

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    Hello everyone!

    Recently I have received the following recommendation from Liquidweb tech support for one of my support requests:

    I am curious, why is this recommendation given? What exact recommendation/official opinion is under it?

    Note: We do not have any issues with MySQL 5.7.

    Thanks for answers!
     
  2. Hayk D

    Hayk D Registered

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    Hello everyone!

    When we say that the upgrade of MySQL to MariaDB is a one way process, so you can not switch back to MySQL after upgrade, do we mean that, for example, we have a server where we run MariaDB and we move the sites to another server where we have MySQL 5.7 installed, there will be issues with databases? Or we mean that if we upgraded to MariaDB, we can not perform upgrade of database in WHM from MariaDB to MySQL?

    Thanks!
     
  3. vacancy

    vacancy Well-Known Member

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    Mysql 5.7 is very stable and smooth, I have observed that mariadb is using high cpu in some databases, so I have not upgraded my servers to mariadb.

    If you upgrade your server to mariadb, you can't go back to mysql, but you can upload your sites from mariadb to mysql.
     
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  4. cPanelLauren

    cPanelLauren Forums Analyst II Staff Member

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    Hello @Hayk D


    At this point the difference between MariaDB and MySQL is fairly minimal, it's primarily a preference. If you're happy on MySQL 5.7 and you're not seeing an issue I wouldn't advise you to move away from it. Were you experiencing an issue in which MySQL or MariaDB was to blame?
     
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  5. PeteS

    PeteS Well-Known Member

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    Hi @cPanelLauren,

    Your recommendation appears to go against the cPanel recommendation (MariaDB 10.3). Can you give me reasons for that?

    Currently I am on MySQL 5.6, and with the cPanel V78 update it's now nagging me to upgrade 5.6 (which I am in favor of doing). So I have been researching on the MySQL vs. MariaDB decision.

    I know I could also go to 5.7, then on to 10.x if I choose, but I'd prefer to make just one upgrade to either 5.7 or 10.3.

    It seems to me the biggest single issue is strict mode, which affects both, and can be disabled until the bugs are worked out, if necessary. Beyond that, MariaDB seems to have some speed advantage, and I dislike Oracle on many levels, but I have not had any issues with MySQL. So it seems like a toss up to me.

    Anyone's input is appreciated!

    -Pete
     
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  6. cPanelLauren

    cPanelLauren Forums Analyst II Staff Member

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    I didn't really give a recommendation I noted that in this instance it's more of a preference than needing to do one or the other. My personal recommendation as far as sustainability would be to move to MariaDB but if that's not something that works for you or something that you're not comfortable with there is no issue with staying on MySQL.
     
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  7. PeteS

    PeteS Well-Known Member

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    I know you don't have a crystal ball, but I would value your thoughts on the following...

    • Will you elaborate on the "sustainability" concern? (I assume you mean "O" pulling something like they did with Java?)
    • One concern I have is that the two will diverge at some point to the degree that there isn't an easy migration path like there is currently. This could lock out a switch to MariaDB unless cPanel made careful provision for that and gave fair warning. This pushes me to just do it now. On the other hand, MySQL's market share is huge and I can't imagine it going away, and MariaDB's is growing but much less. Is it safe/fair to presume upon cPanel to provide a viable open source solution in either case (MariaDB diminishing, or MySQL becoming a paid-only option).

    -Pete
     
  8. cPanelLauren

    cPanelLauren Forums Analyst II Staff Member

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    That's exactly what I mean, while it seems fine right now, I don't know what the future holds for MySQL and neither does anyone else really. I can hope nothing changes but it seems MariaDB is the safer bet in terms of that situation.

    That's a valid concern though I don't see MariaDB veering off from MySQL in that way, it's literally a drop-in replacement for MySQL their goal is going to be keeping it in line with MySQL as much as they possibly can.
     
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  9. PeteS

    PeteS Well-Known Member

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    Thanks! I will likely move MariaDB 10.3, as this confirms my feelings as well.
     
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  10. jazee

    jazee Well-Known Member

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    I read this entire thread and couldn't come away with any clear decisive information as to why switching to MariaDB is the wiser decision, other than 'Cpanel recommends it' which to me doesn't mean anything until I see Cpanel articulate specifically WHY they recommend it. Since they have long-time experience developing and providing support for probably hundreds of thousands of Cpanel instances, I WOULD though trust their advice much more than in one user or group of users on these forums with experience working with a much much smaller number of Cpanel instances.

    To counter that though, I think human psychology leads many Sys Admins to want something 'new' or whatever is being hyped as the 'latest and greatest' The more seasoned Sys Admins, take more of an attitude of 'if it isn't broke, don't try to fix it' as I've learned over 30 years of Sys Admin experience, sometimes the best update/upgrade is NO update/upgrade.

    I'm not a DB expert but what I've gleaned from reading several articles around that Internet is that essentially MariaDB's big attraction (for most) is that it has been hyped as having better performance. In reality this performance increase seems to only be significant in environments with many simultaneous connections. For most of us running application for smaller user groups, the performance improvement is insignificant. And in many cases the Enterprise level applications aren't going to be using MySQL or MariaDB anyway, they are probably going to be running on SQL Server or Oracle. (Not I use words like 'many', or 'most' but not 'all')

    Like most arguments, you can always cherry pick facts to support your stance but we all know our environments and applications can differ widely so what might be best for one is not necessarily the best for another. It also seems that MySQL 5.7 made quite a few improvements that allowed it to do some significant 'catching up' to MariaDB. But as I said, human psychology likes newer shiny objects.

    For me, the jury is still out. What I'd like to see is a detailed explanation from Cpanel as to why they are recommending MariaDB 10.3 at this time.
     
  11. jazee

    jazee Well-Known Member

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    This presentation from Cpanel hits on a lot of the differences but since it's a presentation and not a paper, it's hard to determine Cpanel's specific reasoning. What's really interesting to note is how Cpanel has portrayed the change in the DB-Engine Popularity rankings of both products. They use the oldest trick in the book of altering the graph scale to try to exaggerate data to back up a position. At first glance it makes it look like everyone is abandoning ship on MySQL and MariaDB is hugely popular and growing like wild fire! Page 25 and 26 here:

    https://s3.amazonaws.com/bizzabo.file.upload/DlmQSXdkRgKS5Kqlx7Sn_mysql_v_mariadb_2018.pdf

    But if you go here: DB-Engines Ranking You will see than MySQL currently has a ranking of 1215 as of April 2019 and MariaDB has a ranking of 85. I can hear the person at Cpanel that created that presentation exclaiming like Homer Simpson... "DOH!"

    And to further point out on that ranking score list, the score change since March is +16.89 for MySQL and +0.92 for MariaDB. A lot of HYPE around MariaDB in my opinion that isn't necessarily translating to some big exodus from MySQL for seasoned Sys Admins.

    Wow, Cpanel makes the graph look like everyone is abandoning ship yet it went up 17 points in the past month? Their graph shows a whopping 7.5% decrease over 5 years? And currently at 1215, that puts MySQL at about 95% the popularity ranking it had 4 years ago.

    - Removed Please Attach Images To Your Posts -

    Then on the very next page they use a completely different scale because otherwise the growth would look insignificant. There was about a 10 point increase from July 2017 to July 2018. MySQL had an increase almost double that in just the last month!

    - Removed Please Attach Images To Your Posts -

    I'm not advocating either database engine. I'm just pointing out how easy it is to get caught up in the hype and follow the herd based on exaggerations and/or information that may not be very relevant to your own application environment.
     
    #11 jazee, Apr 13, 2019
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 13, 2019
  12. Infopro

    Infopro cPanel Sr. Product Evangelist Staff Member

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  13. jazee

    jazee Well-Known Member

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    Correct me if I'm wrong but the blog post provided by the moderator addresses why they didn't recommend MySQL 5.7 like two years ago? My question was what the specific reasoning is for Cpanel to recommend upgrading to MariaDB 10.3 instead of MySQL 5.7?

    The blog post from December 2017 states...

    "We still see value in promoting and supporting MariaDB, so we will also retain support for MariaDB for the foreseeable future."

    Currently, Cpanel is "promoting" the upgrade to MariaDB 10.3 instead of MySQL 5.7. That's what the WHM interface is recommending.

    WHY? I'd like to hear Cpanel's list of reasons (not us users guessing.)
     
  14. cPanelLauren

    cPanelLauren Forums Analyst II Staff Member

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    Hi @jazee

    We do prefer MariaDB over MySQL, that's not to say you shouldn't use MySQL. Our leadership weighed this decision carefully and for a number of reasons, which aren't shared publicly, chose MariaDB.
    This doesn't force you to choose though, we do still support MySQL and we do currently offer it within WHM. If MySQL works best for you and what your project is I'd encourage you to use it. For most though MariaDB is a useful well-documented replacement for MySQL.
     
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