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Very concerned about a dispute.

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by JSBurlison, Aug 29, 2010.

  1. JSBurlison

    JSBurlison Well-Known Member

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    My host is telling me one thing and a software company is telling me another. Don't know where the real truth is.

    From the software company:

    That error means the server has maxed out the number of MySQL connections it allows. This is a server-wide limit, not just your forums. Unless you have root access to the server all you can do is ask your host to raise the maximum number of connections they allow.

    From the hosting company:

    MySQL has a limit of 500 connections on your VM. One visit takes 1 connection, once that person has loaded the page, the connection is again freed up.


    You don't have 500 users on your forum concurrently, so if it's hitting the max-connections limit, there is an issue with the code. Your VM is going down from an overload of MySQL, increasing the connections allowed to the server would not resolve the issue that it is crashing...

    From the software company:

    This error is definitely NOT due to our code:

    mysql_connect() [<a href='function.mysql-connect'>function.mysql-connect</a>]: Too many connections

    In spite of what your host says, this is a server limit.

    And no, 4.0.6 does not use more connections than 4.0.3. This is entirely due to the number of MySQL connections on the whole server, not just your forums.

    From the Hosting company:

    You don't share connections with anyone... Your forum, and store are the only scripts using database connections, unless you're running something I"m not aware of.

    I can increase the limit, but be forewarned that your site will in all probability go down more often because of it... That's a symptom, not the cause of your issues...

    Let me know how you'd like to proceed.
    -------------------------------------------

    From this little bit of information is it possible to tell who is more credible?
     
  2. JSBurlison

    JSBurlison Well-Known Member

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    By the way my server is crashing 3-4 times a day.
     
  3. JSBurlison

    JSBurlison Well-Known Member

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    The host is saying the issue is 100% of the memory is being used.
     
  4. Infopro

    Infopro cPanel Sr. Product Evangelist
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    vBulletin I presume? Mods is the first place to check. If you have some, like for example a chat/shoutbox, or addon gallery or something, disable it. If possible disable all and run the forums overnight to see how it goes.

    vBulletin itself should not be an issue, and it sounds as though your host is on top of things, IMO.

    I'd need to know more about the forums to help any more than that, but this sounds like something you added to the forum to me if I was a betting man.
     
  5. JSBurlison

    JSBurlison Well-Known Member

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    Nothing changed except the upgrade. The only add-ons is a banner rotator and tabs.

    These have been on since 4.0.1. Would going to 4.0.6 with these add ons start causing a server crash.

    Is that the host said where mysql is really not the problem but a memory problem? If it is a memory problem why would I be getting too many connection error messages.
     
  6. Infopro

    Infopro cPanel Sr. Product Evangelist
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    No, I don't think so.

    No way of knowing from here. What software is the store mentioned above, using?
     
  7. JSBurlison

    JSBurlison Well-Known Member

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    It is clickcartpro. Unchanged for 3 years.
     
  8. GaryT

    GaryT Well-Known Member

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    500 mysql connections ? You running ebay or something :rolleyes:

    see if you set the max connections to 500 thats no problem but I would also think about adding the max_user_connections to a lower output to save some space for the other mysl processes otherwise your giving it the full resource.

    A shoutbox cannot really overload the forum / sql unless its horrible configured, I have over 90 IPB forums on my server, 80% of them have shoutboxes which run great.

    Have you run any test on the my.cnf, See your on a virtual machine and if its un-managed then your host will tell you the basics of things and not the ideal output or whats exactly going on, If your not sure on how to use the VM you should ask them where the exact location the high load is coming from then you can pin point where and what is causing it eg:

     
  9. JSBurlison

    JSBurlison Well-Known Member

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    No, not ebay, just a tiny little forum.

    I am wondering if just because I get the error message too many connections does it always really mean too many connections?

    I asked about the VM yesterday. I had thought VM was an IBM mainframe thing.

    The host did assure me that I am the only one on the machine, I think he misunderstood what I was asking when I asked bout VM.

    The host told me the problem is vB. The only things I have running mysql is a the live forum, a turned off test forum, and an online store.

    I will ask him if he can tell me more about where the high load is coming from.

    My cnf? I don't know what that is?

    I don't have anything like shoutbox. The only add ons I have is a rotating banner, some tabs, and I think that is about it.

    The forum is vB 4.0.6
     
    #9 JSBurlison, Aug 30, 2010
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2010
  10. JSBurlison

    JSBurlison Well-Known Member

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    90 forums? Oh my.

    I am guessing you have a potent server?

    I don't know the exact specs off the top of my head but I have a dual core server with 4 gigs ram.
     
  11. rackaid

    rackaid Active Member

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    If you have a virtual machine or VPS, I am surprised you do not have the right to change MySQL max connections. This is indeed a server limit but your software may not be releasing connections to MySQL.

    I always grow tired of the finger pointing between software developers and system admins. The reality is that these systems operate together and either or both can contribute to the issue.

    If your host is unwilling or unable to resolve this for you, consider a new host.

    Do you have root access to the server?
     
  12. JSBurlison

    JSBurlison Well-Known Member

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    Is the host telling me right on this. MySql is set for 500 connections. The host tells me in that making it bigger is just going to cause more crashes.

    I don't understand what the means on this but they told me that it is not the server load crashing the system but that all the memory is being used up.

    I do have root access but do not know my way around whm and cpanel. Am a novice. Doing somethings on the server scares me to death unless I am sure of what I am doing.
     
  13. Infopro

    Infopro cPanel Sr. Product Evangelist
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    If it's increased more than 500 that'll mean more memory being used.

    I've had a good look at these forums, seen a post about tapatalk and found your thread on the tapatalk forums, and I agree that that's not the issue.

    You do have a busy forum with registered users, and you do also have a large number of guests. None of that's the issue either.

    Unless that forum was imported from some other brand of forum software, the upgrades recently done as well, are not the issue.

    What is it then? I'm not sure really. But, you might try a few things that could be helpful.

    1) There's lots of Info found on google for Optimizing vBulletin 4 you should look into and give all of the good suggestions a try.

    2) Is this server secure? Modsecurity, CSF, etc. These can help if the forum is being slammed with bots or worse.

    If you're already doing all this, and your error logs are no help, and you're not doing anything off the wall that I couldn't see from your forums, like a php mailing list or some other script that could be being attacked, then I'd have to guess the server itself has issues.


    Don't let that hold you back from doing whats right for your site and users. If you're unsure of what you're doing and don't have the time to learn, hire someone or move to a managed host that'll help when times like this crop up.

    If this server is not locked down I'd start there if I was you and make it so. ;)
     
  14. JSBurlison

    JSBurlison Well-Known Member

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    I have a manged host. I think the host is annoyed a bit by all my questions. vB says its the host, the host says it is vB :)

    I am going to try and start reading some to learn what is safe and unsafe to do on the server and will try and follow all the suggestions.

    My forum was actually much much busier than it is now. I moved from SMF in February. At the end of March I was down to 4000 active users, not I am on the 2600's just shy of 2700. It has been quite a decline.

    I moved from SMF to 4.0.1, then 4.0.2, 4.0.3, and finally 4.0.6
     
  15. Infopro

    Infopro cPanel Sr. Product Evangelist
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    IMHO, you really can't go by that Active Users number on a forum as being all good traffic though. Active online registered users, yes, but that also depends on and goes by, the cookie setting in your software. For example if you bumped the cookie timeout to 90 minutes instead of the default 15 (IIRC), your online active users, guests and registered, goes way up.

    A popular forum like yours is also surely popular with spammers, no doubt. I've seen forums getting many registrations a day and many of them spam accounts registering and surfing looking for things to jump on, like posted email addresses, visitor messaging spam, etc.

    I can't speak for your host of course or his server, but I see no obvious reasons for that forum to be pounding the server on it's own as it sits right now.

    That said, you really should take this topic up on the vBulletin .com and/or .org forums for suggestions to assist you here more. This isn't exactly a cPanel problem so assistance here would be much more limited than over there.

    HTH somehow. ;)
     
  16. JSBurlison

    JSBurlison Well-Known Member

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    Thanks. I keep coming back to anything server related as vBulletin keeps telling me they are not about server issues. It is a pain being bounced back and forth.

    I am going to spend money and hire some people to figure this out.

    Oh....on spammers, I manually screen each person that joins one at a time before I let them in. There have been days where I have spent 4 hours pre-screening new members :)
     
    #16 JSBurlison, Aug 31, 2010
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2010
  17. Infopro

    Infopro cPanel Sr. Product Evangelist
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    My point exactly. If you're being pounded by spambots each time they register it does open a connection to the forums DB. If this is automated which it probably is, and was coming from several heavy hitters at the same time? You might think you were uder a DDoS attack.

    I'm only guessing here of course.

    I wouldn't think a proper host would be bouncing you to anyone else, rather, putting together details by monitoring the account and it's logs for signs of trouble.

    I've been with hosts like that. There are better out there that should be able to help you.

    Good Luck.
     
  18. JSBurlison

    JSBurlison Well-Known Member

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    Any suggestions one someone to hire?

    vB has a huge laundry list of data that they want and I am slowly trying to figure out how to get that information. They are convinced it is the host and I really can't get any help from vB unless I have certain information off of cpanel.

    A person I wanted to hire will not be available for more than a week.

    Server crashed twice in the same hour with connection issues.

    The host is convinced it is vB as the issue.

    Quote from the host.

    "Rebooted it, and again it goes to 100%.

    This is what happens when a server starts to act up, and one doesn't deal with it right away."

    Since this started when you switched to vB perhaps another switch is in order?

    I've got a log running... see where it stops the next time the server stalls. Since it always ends up in either apache or MySQL, it means the problem is in one of your scripts."
     
  19. Infopro

    Infopro cPanel Sr. Product Evangelist
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    Just another guess here, but I think you found my old host. If so, run, don't walk to find a new host.

    Whatever became of these log files you setup?
    http://forums.cpanel.net/f34/general-error-log-cpanel-163662.html


    I'll also add here for good measure in case you were not aware, your site is on a cPanel server, the most popular web hosting control panel on the planet.

    Meaning, when you find a new host and if he runs cPanel, moving from point A your old host to point B your new host, would be quite painless to do.

    I really can't suggest anyone to help. Not that I don't know any, but, I work for cPanel I've got to stay neutral.

    Good Luck!
     
  20. JSBurlison

    JSBurlison Well-Known Member

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    I think I figured out the problem.

    In a five minute period I got 26 pages of too many connection emails in gmail at 50 per page.

    I started to look at the IP addresses and the first 48 of the emails were this address.

    216.104.15.142

    I searched my mail for these ip addresses and each came back saying thousands.

    216.104.15.138
    216.104.15.142
    216.104.15.130
    216.104.15.134

    A little bit later it the messages started coming about again. Oddly enough I was able to get in and blocked them and the messages suddenly stopped.

    I want back and saw that there were more than 1000 of these message all show the same minute and second from these IP addresses.

    I don't know if it was this or not but it was interesting that the connection messages stopped the moment I got these blocked in cpanel.
     
    #20 JSBurlison, Sep 5, 2010
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2010
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