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What exactly is CloudLinux?

Discussion in 'CloudLinux' started by Spork Schivago, Nov 14, 2016.

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  1. Spork Schivago

    Spork Schivago Well-Known Member

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    Hello,

    Sorry for this stupid question. I've researched it a good bit and thought I knew. I was under the impression that CloudLinux was a set of RPMs and a custom compiled kernel. But I'm a bit confused. I have a VPS that I rent from GoDaddy. I wanted CloudLinux for the symlink protection, among other things. But when I contacted them, I get a reply. This is part of that reply:
    They say it's a lot of money for the CloudLinux license, but here: cPanel Store
    I see it's only 16$ a month, if I have cPanel installed. They said Cloud Linux is what they run themselves and that it's used by large-scale companies. Is that true? I guess because of the custom kernel, I cannot actually install CloudLinux on my VPS.

    I'm just a bit confused. Is CloudLinux really for large-scale companies? Is it really a lot of money for it? I found instructions on the Cloud Linux website on how to convert CentOS 6 to Cloud Linux, but I guess those instructions probably aren't meant for someone running a VPS under Virtuozzo.

    I wish cPanel provided servers to rent for a small fee, like GoDaddy does. I'd rent one.
     
    #1 Spork Schivago, Nov 14, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 16, 2016
  2. Jcats

    Jcats Well-Known Member

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    CloudLinux is available on OpenVZ/Virtuozzo but only if the host supports it and its limited in terms of what you can control resource wise however you still get the core features which in my eyes are CageFS and PHP selector as well as process limiting although with EA4 PHP selector isn't as demanding anymore hooweevverrr(again)... EA4 only supports PHP 5.4 and up, where CL PHP Selector you can go back to ancient history which is PHP 4.4 I believe.

    CloudLinux is surely used by big names, you don't see it more often because it would be a HUGE transition for a lot of the big names, but I know GoDaddy does use it for their shared servers for example, they recently started using it the past 2 years I think.

    For OpenVZ: CloudLinux Documentation

    Its literally the first thing you see if you google "cloudlinux openvz" ;)

    but again, it requires the host to install and activate it on the VPS so its out of your hands if the host isn't willing and being that its still in beta, I doubt GoDaddy will go for it.
     
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  3. Spork Schivago

    Spork Schivago Well-Known Member

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    I actually ran across this documentation and pointed GoDaddy to it a few days ago. So the reason I cannot have it installed on my VPS is because GoDaddy just won't do it? This is what was confusing me. I thought maybe there was something else called CloudLinux and we were confusing the two or something. When they said it wasn't doable on the VPSes, I thought they meant it wasn't physically doable, not that it wasn't allowed. Thanks for clarifying this for me. GoDaddy also has something called Cloud servers, so I think that could have been where I was getting confused as well. I thought their Cloud servers were servers running CloudLinux, but this is not the case.

    I'm almost tempted to find another hosting provider, but I'm a bit weary of just searching for one and going for it. Support is big for me, but also unlimited bandwidth, like what I have with GoDaddy is definitely a plus! Having them setup reverse DNS pointer records is another thing I'd like (but GoDaddy won't do), having certain iptable modules enabled (for CSF) would be great (another thing GoDaddy won't do) and finally, the big one, having good protection against symlink race conditions (either a patched kernel or CageFS via CloudLinux).
     
  4. Renual

    Renual Registered

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    You should actually be able to install this quite easily yourself. On a VPS with Root access that is.

    Cloud Linux is pretty much a complete isolation between websites so let's say one website gets hacked it won't interfere with other websites on the same machine, or let's say one of your customers suddenly gets a lot of traffic... Normally it'd take down the entire machine, no more. Cloudlinux will only allocate X amount of cpu time to the website and that's it.
     
  5. Jcats

    Jcats Well-Known Member

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    Nope, not on Openvz as mentioned in the previous reply, and I don't think he was looking for a sales pitch as he can clearly read their site ;)
     
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  6. Spork Schivago

    Spork Schivago Well-Known Member

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    Renual,

    Even though I could install Cloud Linux on the VPS, I think because I'd never be able to use the kernel that comes with Cloud Linux, it'd be almost not worth it, if not completely not worth it. They did tell me though that if I got one of their Cloud Servers, then I could install Cloud Linux on that. I gotta look into the differences between a VPS and Cloud server now. The way they rent the Cloud Servers are a bit weird. For example, with my VPS, I have an option to pay 10$ extra a month and get cPanel, but with the Cloud Servers, they don't have that option. If I went for the Cloud Server, I'd more than likely lose cPanel all together, because paying for it myself, through cPanel's website let's say, would be around 20$ a month, if I remember correctly. That's too much. So I'd have to do everything from a remote SSH console connection. That wouldn't be bad, but I really love the support from cPanel and will miss them.

    Also, with my VPS, I have "unlimited" bandwidth, but with the Cloud servers, I don't. I think the cheapest plan offers 2TB of data a month. I don't really know how big a website would need to be to go over that 2TB a month limit. So, I mean, once I finish my site, would I need more than that? I dunno. It's just a little worrisome. Also, they say you only pay for what you use. My understanding is the Cloud Servers are just a virtual machine and I can actually turn them off. Maybe with the Cloud Servers, you're not expected to use them 24x7? I dunno. I gotta do a lot more research before I make the switch to the Cloud Server and then Cloud Linux.

    I really wish cPanel offered Cloud servers and VPSes to rent.
     
  7. Spork Schivago

    Spork Schivago Well-Known Member

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    cPanelMichael,

    I believe it's final reached the point where I need to switch hosting providers. I went to the link you suggested and I see where you recommend the OP go to https://www.cloudlinux.com/partners/partners.php to find a list of hosting providers.

    I go there, and cPanel is listed. I want to make absolutely certain though, cPanel does not offer web hosting, correct? Your company sells Cloud linux licenses for a monthly fee and cPanel licenses for a monthly fee, but you don't actually rent out servers, right?

    Thanks.
     
  8. cPanelMichael

    cPanelMichael Forums Analyst
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    Hi @Spork Schivago,

    That's correct. cPanel does not offer any type of web hosting or server rentals.

    Thanks.
     
  9. germany

    germany Member

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    You should actually be able to install this quite easily yourself. On a VPS with Root access that is.
     
  10. Spork Schivago

    Spork Schivago Well-Known Member

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    Yes. I've learned a good bit about it since I first asked the question. I really want to run it, but unfortunately, I just can't afford it now. If it was something like 20$ for cPanel and CloudLinux together, we'd do it in a heartbeat. Right now, we pay 14.95$ a month for cPanel. It's 16$ a month for CloudLinux. It's just too expensive for us.

    If cPanel offered VPSes that came with cPanel and CloudLinux, we'd probably just rent from them.

    I've noticed the prices for cPanel (and maybe CloudLinux, but I don't think so) are a lot more expensive if you have a dedicated server instead of a VPS. Why is this? I can't seem to find any information on why it's so much more if you have a dedicated server. I'd have thought the price would have been exactly the same. From googling, from what I can tell, they're just optimized differently. A VPS cPanel installation is optimized for VPSes and a dedicated cPanel installation is optimized for a dedicated server.
     
    #11 Spork Schivago, Jan 13, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2017
  11. cPanelMichael

    cPanelMichael Forums Analyst
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    Hello,

    Our Customer Service Department is the best resource for answers to pricing questions such as the cost differences between VPS and Dedicated licenses. You can reach out to them via the link at:

    Support & Customer Service | cPanel, Inc.

    Thanks!
     
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  12. Spork Schivago

    Spork Schivago Well-Known Member

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    I sent an email to them asking why it was so much more for the dedicated cPanel and if there were any other differences between the two cPanel types other than the optimizations used.

    Thanks cPanelMichael.

    We now have a company in the area that offers fiber optic at an affordable price. For telephone, television, and 100Mbps download / 20Mbps upload, it's 125.99$ a month. For 1Gbps download / 50Mbps upload, it's only 250$ (that doesn't include telephone or television). I was thinking of maybe buying some rack mount servers and renting them out, much like the companies GoDaddy and Linode do. I know 50Mbps isn't the greatest, but maybe people would rent servers from me. I'd still need to purchase some UPS backups and a whole home generator. It's just an idea though. If I do that, I'd run my own server on there as well and have to switch to a dedicated VPS. I'd probably purchase a license for that CloudLinux as well for the customers to have.
     
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  13. Spork Schivago

    Spork Schivago Well-Known Member

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    Just in case anyone else has the similar question, I'd like to share what I learned from the cPanel sales rep. There are no differences in features between the VPS version of cPanel and the dedicated version. Both are optimized for their environment. For example, the dedicated version of cPanel is optimized for a dedicated server, whereas the VPS version of cPanel is optimized for a virtual environment. The reason the VPS version costs so much less is because most people that own (not rent) a server that has some sort of VPS software on it might have multiple versions of cPanel running.

    Some servers that have VPS software on them might actually be hosting 30 or more cPanel installations. It's a bit cheaper because someone will be paying more money for that one server. I personally think this is a nice way of doing things. If cPanel didn't do it this way, I wouldn't be able to afford a cPanel license. To me, it shows they care about their customers. I feel a lot of people might rent shared servers or virtual servers, but only larger companies will have a dedicated server. Usually, if you have a dedicated server, you have the money for the more expensive dedicated version of cPanel.

    Just thought I'd share! Thanks!
     
  14. dalem

    dalem Well-Known Member
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    just remember there is no redundancy with that set up
    internet/power and I would guess that the ip space would cost a small fortune with a traditional ISP.
    You would also likely need a business account as most ISP's do let you host websites and run servers on a residential account.
    You are better off getting collocation as it would likely be cheaper in the long run and if the provider is a cpanel partner you can get your cpanel & cloudlinux licenses cheaper
     
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  15. Spork Schivago

    Spork Schivago Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I would need redundancy on multiple levels. We would get a much nicer UPS system and a "whole home" backup generator that runs on natural gas with an automatic transfer switch. We would need some sort of RAID array that supported redundancy. I did not think about the IP address space. It was just an idea and I hadn't fully thought it out. Thank you for helping me. That's a very valid point. We would have a business account with them, if we went further. I have talked to the company and if we went further, they would send a salesperson to my house and we would discuss what I needed.

    What do you mean by collocation? I googled the definition but didn't understand what it meant in this context. Thanks!
     
  16. dalem

    dalem Well-Known Member
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    I kinda ball parked it out on a small scale its not worth it to do it right
    the biggest issue is going to be the single point of failure your "ISP". Not to mention you throttled upload speed. What are you going to tell your customers when you down for a week because they cant dispatch a repair crew out or when you run out of propane when a storm takes you power out for a week.

    if you can even get ips out of your ISP Mine is "Static IP Addresses Starting at $19.95/mo."
    Just to get a small allocation of 61 IP's is going to run your $1200 very unlikely that that they will allow a BGP session so your could route your own IP space.

    Colocation refers to the practice of housing your servers and devices in a datacenter in order to access economies of scale, advanced infrastructure, greater bandwidth, lower latency, specialist services and systems

    IE: you house your equipment in I will bet you a dollar it will be cheaper
    and the beauty is you can house them just about anywhere your not restricted to just your location
     
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  17. Spork Schivago

    Spork Schivago Well-Known Member

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    Thank you. I figured with the business account, it'd be a lot different than a consumer account. Where I used to work, we had a fiber line through the local cable company. It was the same company I got my television service from. But the level of service was very different, much like an HP desktop or laptop compared to an HP workstation or rackmount server. I appreciate your advice and will look into other stuff.

    I got a Dell rackmount server coming in the mail soon and an HP workstation. The Dell is just to play around with, nothing fancy. The workstation isn't really fancy or anything. It's an HP xw8600, with all the trimmings. It has dual 3GHz e5472 quad core xeon CPU's, 32gb RAM, 1.5gb FX4800 GPU, 2x Trion150 240GB SSD's in a RAID-0, USB3 controller, DVDRW, and a card reader. I'll probably through some sata drives in there and I plan on setting up Windows Server 2012 R2 on it. I want to use the S2K12 to deploy Windows installations on customers PCs. I believe I can deploy a fully updated image to a customer's machine, and instead of taking a long time to run windows update after I finish installing the OS, I can hopefully fully reinstall an operating system, fully updated, in an hour or so.
     
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