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Why is SpamBox not enabled by default?

Discussion in 'E-mail Discussion' started by DennisMidjord, Dec 11, 2018.

  1. DennisMidjord

    DennisMidjord Well-Known Member

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    It's great that SpamAssassin actually finds a lot of mails and marks them as spam, but it seems unnecessary to put these emails in the inbox by default. We get a couple request every day regarding spam emails, and most of them just needs to enable SpamBox.
    Why is this not possible to enable by default?

    We just migrated ~1000 accounts to new servers, and after migrating it seems that the SpamBox setting for each user (whether to enable or disable SpamBox) was kept.
     
  2. rpvw

    rpvw Well-Known Member

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    Spam box is great for those people wanting to use IMAP, it is easy to map it into the subscribed folders, but it requires additional account settings to be able to check mail that has been routed into the Spam box if using POP3

    Most of my clients prefer to have their spam marked as ***SPAM*** and delivered to their Inbox for them to review, than have to check in different folders for false positives and missed mails.

    I guess the feature depends on the consensus of your client base.
     
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  3. DennisMidjord

    DennisMidjord Well-Known Member

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    My point is that most email providers automatically move the file to a Spam folder - Gmail, Hotmail, Yahoo. Most people are used to this. Having everything in 'Inbox' is a mess, and cleaning up takes a lot more time. You need to delete all spam messages manually and watch if there's any false positives.
    If you use SpamBox, just check if there's any false positives in the spam folder - if not, delete everything.
     
  4. rpvw

    rpvw Well-Known Member

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    I respect your perspective, but I don't think you are taking into account the way other people might elect to work.

    Most of my customers are companies that use more than one device to access their email accounts and prefer to have the emails stored on their local machines and NOT on the server.

    To that end, they tend to set up POP3 accounts to download their mail and process it on their own computers and devices, and elect to just store mail on the server for a few days until all their devices in use have had a chance to download it.

    If Spambox were to be enabled by default, they would have to set up an additional POP3 account for every email spambox that they needed to monitor, effectively doubling the number of POP3 accounts to set up on each device, and potentially doubling the amount of polls made to the server.

    Additionally, not everyone uses the webmail interfaces that Gmail etc provide for them.

    I have had Gmail accounts for a long time, and have never logged into their webmail interface after setting everything up - I prefer to poll the Gmail account using POP3 from my Thunderbird web client.

    I am not stating that any one method is correct, nor attempting to convince anyone that one approach is better than another - merely pointing out that different people use the facilities in different ways, and enabling anything by default will always provoke discussion as to its relative merits.

    So the question is -
    Should spambox be enabled by default and force those customers that don't want it to have to log into their cPanel and disable it ?
    OR
    Should spambox be left disabled and leave it up to the customer to enable it if they want to ?

    The answer is obviously 42 ! :-D
     
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  5. Infopro

    Infopro cPanel Sr. Product Evangelist Staff Member

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    Fully coffee'd up, I'm compelled to flag this comment as confusing. ;)
     
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  6. DennisMidjord

    DennisMidjord Well-Known Member

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    They can use the same account. The same account can check multiple folders - we already do that for some systems where POP3 is needed.

    Whether you use the interface or not, Gmail still moves "unwanted" emails to a folder called Spam.

    My question was the following:
    I know there's different use cases for email, and some would probably like to have SpamBox disabled. I've googled a bit and see that I'm not the only one wanting to have it enabled by default, so I'm wondering why it isn't an option - just like enabling SpamAssassin.
     
  7. rpvw

    rpvw Well-Known Member

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    @Infopro If one uses POP and wants the emails on more than one device, the options are:

    POP and leave everything on server (but many of my clients want the perceived privacy of having the mails only on their devices)
    POP and leave on server for as much time (a few days?) as it takes all their other devices to download the mails as well.
    POP and leave on server, but have one device control the deletion of the mails on the server (but this depends on the device being used and configured within strict parameters)
    POP and delete mails which then doesn't allow any other device to retrieve a copy of that mail
    OR
    IMAP and leave everything on the server and allow as many devices as needed to access the emails.

    I know the most sensible and current thinking advocates IMAP - I'm just trying to point out that not everyone thinks that way :-p
     
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  8. rpvw

    rpvw Well-Known Member

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    I am intrigued to know how one sets up a POP3 account that can check multiple folders ?

    A simple filter in Gmail prevents this !

    I guess this is all getting too complicated - I shall instruct all my clients that from now on, they have to do it the @DennisMidjord way, and abandon everything that they want to do, and have been doing for the past 15 years. :(
     
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  9. DennisMidjord

    DennisMidjord Well-Known Member

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    One account, multiple connections. You can define what folder to look in.

    You're not reading what I'm suggesting at all. All I'm saying is we'd like the option to enable SpamBox by default. If we enable it by default, nothing will affect any of your customers. Your customers can continue like they've always done.
    Most of our customers want to have SpamBox enabled.
     
  10. rpvw

    rpvw Well-Known Member

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    What email client allows one to use a POP3 account to look in multiple folders ?

    And what folders can be seen by a POP3 account as Spam Filters - Version 76 Documentation - cPanel Documentation clearly states
     
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  11. Infopro

    Infopro cPanel Sr. Product Evangelist Staff Member

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    Twitter:
    This might make a great Feature Request. Have you considering creating one about it?
    cPanel & WHM Feature Requests

    Thanks for that... ;)

    The comment flagged (with a wink) is still confusing. I've read it a few times now and it still confuses me.

    "Most of my customers are companies that use more than one device to access their email accounts and prefer to have the emails stored on their local machines and NOT on the server."

    So when I download email to one of my devices, off the server as preferred, how am I getting it on another device?

    "To that end, they tend to set up POP3 accounts to download their mail and process it on their own computers and devices,"

    Seems reasonable to me, I prefer that here. But then:

    "...and elect to just store mail on the server for a few days until all their devices in use have had a chance to download it."

    To be clear, I get your point. Those two sentences just read like your going in two directions. Not leaving it on the server, but downloading to multiple devices. And, leaving it on the server, for just a few days.

    And then what? Pop in and delete the entire contents of the inbox to get it off the server a few times a month?

    I may be mis-reading this, and have no excuses if I am. I'm pretty sure I did not make the decaf this morning, but I'll go check right now.

    :)
     
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  12. DennisMidjord

    DennisMidjord Well-Known Member

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  13. rpvw

    rpvw Well-Known Member

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    I see where you are coming from here. The statement is both contradictory and counter intuitive as you pointed out.

    The method does however work provided your email clients have the facility to Leave Messages on server ..... for at most xx days

    So the following scenario might occur:
    1. The user switches his mobile phone on in the morning when he wakes up, and downloads the mail (and leaves it on the server)
    2. After breakfast he switches his home PC on and downloads the mail there as well as it is set to download and leave on server for at most 7 days.
    3. Since it is a long weekend, he doesn't go into his office for 4 or 5 days, but when he does go in , the mails are still available for download and will be deleted in say 2 more days as the setting was download and leave messages on server for at most 7 days.
    Wouldn't it be easier if they all used IMAP ? Of course, but that's the way they have always done it from the early days when most server side email boxs were tiny, and could only store limited amounts of mail in them (you know - pre Gmail etc) - and we all must acknowledge that people hate to change anything if they cant see a good reason to do so.
     
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  14. Infopro

    Infopro cPanel Sr. Product Evangelist Staff Member

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    Thanks for digging it up, I've voted for it as well.

    Obviously! :-p
     
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  15. sparek-3

    sparek-3 Well-Known Member

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    What's best by default is in the eye of the beholder.

    Educating people on what their options are is always the best position (at least in my opinion). But educating is a lot of work... you had to read... you have to learn... why not just make these machines do what I want without any intervention on my part?

    If this is enabled by default, inevitably you're going to have customers clamoring "I'm not getting all of my email." To which point you're going to say "Did you check your spam box?" and then they're going to say "What spam box?" or "Where's the spam box?"

    You're never going to make everyone happy - that's a fact.

    But if you provide the tools to educate people. And if those people are willing to be educated. Then you are going to cover all of your bases.
     
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  16. DennisMidjord

    DennisMidjord Well-Known Member

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    My words exactly. We just want a switch in WHM to enable this by default - I'm not even saying WHM has to have it enabled by default, but it should be possible to enable it.

    In my case, it's about listening to what our customers say. We have a lot of inqueries about inboxes being filled with spam, so it only makes sense to enable SpamBox globally for us. There might be a few false positives, but it should only be a few.
     
  17. sparek-3

    sparek-3 Well-Known Member

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    If you really want to accomplish this, simply create a hook that creates an empty /home/%user%/.spamassassinboxenable file when a new account is created.
     
  18. DennisMidjord

    DennisMidjord Well-Known Member

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    I did read about that before creating this thread, but it doesn't answer my question.
     
  19. cPanelMichael

    cPanelMichael Technical Support Community Manager Staff Member

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    Hello,

    To summarize, I encourage anyone seeking this functionality to vote and add feedback to the following feature requests:

    Enable Spam Box by default for all domains if SpamAssassin Spam Box delivery for messages marked as spam is enabled.
    When spam box is activated it has to be added to subscriptions but it is not.

    In the meantime, the recommended workaround is to create the /home/$username/.spamassassinboxenable file under all accounts, which will enable the Spam Box option. There are some user-submitted commands discussed on the following thread to help you with enabling it on existing accounts:

    Apache SpamAssassin global enable anyone?

    For new accounts, you could setup a post account creation hook that automatically creates the .spamassassinboxenable file.

    Let me know of any additional questions.

    Thanks!
     
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  20. cPanelMichael

    cPanelMichael Technical Support Community Manager Staff Member

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